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elliesmom
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Just for the statistical purposes...
      #723879 - 01/13/11 02:16 PM

My dad and his wife are divorcing and she is seeking SS. Not specified for how long. He makes about 4 times what she does at least.

They have been married for 4 years now, though they filed for divorce after 3 years. They dated for 6 years (she was collecting rehab alimony plus education expenses from husband number 1). She actually failed to turn in her final project and never got her degree (Dad didn't know that until after the marriage and he was helping her find a job that she lied about getting her Masters). So her earning potential is not great.

He purchased a home for them together a few weeks before they married in his name only, with his inheritance. They did not sell their previous homes. He remodled her previous home to add some room, rehab the kitchen, and added a bathroom after they married (they wanted to sell it but the market sh!tcanned and then they did). He saved every receipt for this, but he did the work himself (Dad put himself through college working for a general contractor so he is pretty handy). Dad JUST sold the "mutual" home for a total loss of the downpayment (his inheritance). He has a few cars he came into the marriage with she still has her car she came in with. They have a mutual restraining order - he says she attacked him with scissors and he shoved her and she fell and "sprained" her finger. Don't know her version but they both sought medical attention. HE claims that she began abusing alcohol on top of prescription shopping shortly after they married that slowly escalated to a point where it was out of control. I know she passed out once while drawing a bath and flooded the bathroom and ruined the kitchen ceiling. She also fell onto the dishwasher door and broke it. And she turned the water on in the basement and forgot and flooded it - necessitating replacement of all the carpet. Then her old house was being foreclosed on because she secretly began pocketing the money dad gave her instead of paying the mortgage. He then asked for a divorce and called her parents and told them she had a drug/alcohol problem. She allegedly came after him with scissors etc. She says he is hiding money and cheated on her. He says no, and I say if he is/did she'll never find/prove it. Because he is not unskilled at deception.

They have a pre-nup, that basically says what you came in with is yours and no SS, but she never sought her own counsel before signing it.

She wants:
Half the amount of the downpayment on the "mutual" house.
Half of everything else he owns.
SS

He wants:
no SS
Either way mutual house is a wash (but his contention is that he bought it premarital without her name with his inheritance so it is not hers in any way).
They each keep their "stuff" and homes

At my urging he has had his lawyer lay on the table his investment in her house that he is entitle to half the equity increase or compensation for his investment and sweat investment. Her lawyer seemed anxious to settle once he got that information, but she is sticking to wanting SS and seems to think he can't touch the house.

I'll let y'all know how it turns out in a few weeks...

--------------------
Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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elliesmom
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: elliesmom]
      #723885 - 01/13/11 02:27 PM

I am going to scratch what I said about income before. I did a little math. I think he makes about 10 times what she does, based on the amount of mortgage he was given. I have not/will not straight up ask him how much money he makes. Based on her field I can say approximately what she makes.

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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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1966Gal
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: elliesmom]
      #723886 - 01/13/11 02:27 PM

Tell me more about the pre-nup. Did she sign it in front of a notary? The biggest things abotu pre-nups is the timing. She has to have signed it well before they actually got married.

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elliesmom
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: 1966Gal]
      #723888 - 01/13/11 02:29 PM

The prenup was notarized. I am not certain exactly when she signed it, but I would estimate months before the wedding. They had a wedding that involved planning and downpayments, which he would not have made without her signing.

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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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1966Gal
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: elliesmom]
      #723914 - 01/13/11 03:31 PM

She didn't have a lawyer. Did your dad have a lawyer? Or was it something they drew up themselves and then took to a notary to sign?

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Maury
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: 1966Gal]
      #723920 - 01/13/11 03:42 PM

Different states have different procedural requirements for prenuptial agreements. They are also scrutinized from the perspective that they must be fair at the time signed and at the time enforced.

It would seem that if procedural requirements have been met, your father's exposure is extremely limited, although in most states any equity or assets acquired during the marriage are still divisible.


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hanzblinx
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: Maury]
      #723937 - 01/13/11 04:18 PM

Anybody who dates a prior alimony recipient is asking for it. Anybody who marries a prior alimony recipient deserves what they get. Last year I met a 27 year old at a resteruant for a date. When I found out she was collecting alimony from her ex I gave her a piece of hanzblinx's mind and told her never to text or call me or even look at me in the eye. Needless today she will remember that date.

Edited by hanzblinx (01/13/11 04:19 PM)


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1966Gal
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: hanzblinx]
      #723939 - 01/13/11 04:25 PM

Last year I met a 27 year old at a resteruant for a date. When I found out she was collecting alimony from her ex I gave her a piece of hanzblinx's mind and told her never to text or call me or even look at me in the eye. Needless today she will remember that date.

++++++

Wow. What a loss for her!!! BAER

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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.


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elliesmom
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: 1966Gal]
      #723945 - 01/13/11 04:43 PM

Regarding the lawyer - I am not certain that he had a lawyer for this specifically. Most likely it was someone who owed him a favor and did not represent him in any official capacity.

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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: 1966Gal]
      #723951 - 01/13/11 04:49 PM

See, even YOU suggest signing a pre-nup, now you are looking for HOLES in the pre-nup. You are DISGUSTING.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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elliesmom
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #723954 - 01/13/11 04:55 PM

I don't think she is TRYING to poke holes in the prenup - she just wants to understand the circumstances when I come back with the outcome. Assuming there are no more continuances. Considering there are no children involved it is a tad ridiculous it has taken nearly 2 years to get divorced.

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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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hanzblinx
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: 1966Gal]
      #723958 - 01/13/11 05:09 PM

[quote]Last year I met a 27 year old at a resteruant for a date. When I found out she was collecting alimony from her ex I gave her a piece of hanzblinx's mind and told her never to text or call me or even look at me in the eye. Needless today she will remember that date.

++++++

Wow. What a loss for her!!! BAER [/quote]

Considering she drove 3 hours to get there and 3 hours to get home, I'd say you are correct.


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DedicatedDad
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: hanzblinx]
      #723974 - 01/13/11 05:45 PM

I met a knockout a couple years ago. We started with small talk, and it got very interesting. Clearly there was chemistry....I had her phone number....then she told me she lived off of child support and alimony with a snicker....I gave her number back and said I wasn't interested in being her next victim.

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elliesmom
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #723982 - 01/13/11 05:57 PM

This one had a nice sob story about how he left her and their kids for another woman (true) right after he passed his boards. And he agreed to the alimony amount - they settled because he was in a hurry to marry wife #2. She was living off of it because it was designed to "support" her getting her degree as she did him.

Honestly - all that didn't bother me at all. But considering the SWEET deal she got from him - she was extremely hateful towards him. I mean - she hated him said he was a miserable husband - so she should have been THRILLED he took off AND she got all that money. One would think. She also got the marital home that he doesn't get his half of the equity from until she sells it. All that and he could never do anything good. And she always had thinly veiled insults for him in front of the kids. THAT bothered me.

She was VERY attractive, especially considering her age.

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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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DedicatedDad
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: elliesmom]
      #723993 - 01/13/11 06:15 PM

The women I met was 39 years old but looked around 30, had been married for 20 years, and got alimony for life. She clearly spent gobs of money on herself as evident by her clothes, nails, makeup, hair, tan, vehicle, and what just about had to be a boob job, although I could be wrong (as I didn't ask!).

Beyond all that, I don't really care what she looked like. She could have just as well have been an average lady from down the street...as soon as I heard alimony with a snicker, I escaped.


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1966Gal
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: elliesmom]
      #724007 - 01/13/11 07:06 PM

Actually, I'm interested in the pre-nup because H and I drew one up ourselves. We followed the advice of a lawyer, but still drew it up ourselves and signed it ourselves with a notary.

I'm interested in seeing if your dad's pre-nup holds up...because I've wondered how well ours would hold up. Your dad's sounds like ours...I hope it does hold up!

I doesn't sound like she stands a chance. She wants part of his downpayment, which no longer exists because of the downturn in the market. However, I also don't think that your dad will get anything for his sweat-equity in her home.

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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.


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finz
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #724008 - 01/13/11 07:06 PM

Maybe they need to update spousal support laws.....like, you only get to take the capital gains waiver on selling a house once, or up to a certain amount....maybe you should only be allowed to collect ss after one marriage.

Or maybe everyone needs to be more careful to check someone's financial history and RUN if they hear the A word.


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1966Gal
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #724010 - 01/13/11 07:09 PM

I met a knockout a couple years ago. We started with small talk, and it got very interesting. Clearly there was chemistry....I had her phone number....then she told me she lived off of child support and alimony with a snicker....I gave her number back and said I wasn't interested in being her next victim.

++++++++++++

Funny. I once had a blind date with a guy who started bragging about how he hid money and was paying minimal child support as a result. I had ZERO interest in him.

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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.


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elliesmom
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: 1966Gal]
      #724015 - 01/13/11 07:16 PM

The sweat equity is a toss up. But he did turn her 3BR/1BA home into a 4BR/2BA home with a completely remodeled kitchen and paid for all of it. Even with the downturn in the market there was significant property value increase. So based on my limited understanding - he is definitely entitled to half the equity increase based on the percentage of his investment. The "sweat equity" would be based on the value of the work her provided for free and specifically mentioned in the case law of the state in question.

But he doesn't WANT any of that. If he gets it - he will settle for giving it back for nothing unless she gets something that he doesn't think she should have (Alimony or any of his property). He considers the money he spent to be lost and doesn't care to get it back.

So we shall see.

--------------------
Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: 1966Gal]
      #724019 - 01/13/11 07:22 PM

Yeah, because alimony and child support are the same thing, right?

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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finz
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: elliesmom]
      #724020 - 01/13/11 07:23 PM

EM.....I think he should start caring about that investment and make it a big arguing point.

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elliesmom
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: finz]
      #724032 - 01/13/11 07:56 PM

I have convinced him to argue for it. He's given his attorney copies of all the receipts for materials.

He really doesn't want it - I mean he really does probably take in 10x what she does so its not like he's hurting. But he understands that this is like a poker game where a judge determines what your cards are worth. And it would chap his behind to have to pay her alimony. So we shall see.

--------------------
Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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1966Gal
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: elliesmom]
      #724034 - 01/13/11 08:07 PM

The only thing that worries me is that if he argues for equity in her house, then he is basically arguing that the pre-nup should be null and void. Instead, I think he should be arguing to keep the prenup intact.

Just to clarify. The house he bought prior to the marriage has been sold and it sold for less than he paid, causing him to lose all of the down payment. ???

She still owns her house. ??? How did she get it out of foreclosure?

--------------------
The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.


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DedicatedDad
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: 1966Gal]
      #724097 - 01/13/11 10:22 PM

"Funny. I once had a blind date with a guy who started bragging about how he hid money and was paying minimal child support as a result. I had ZERO interest in him."

I feel the same (if it was a gal, that is!).


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elliesmom
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #724172 - 01/14/11 07:55 AM

Actually he is not arguing that the prenup is void. He is arguing that all the existing equity when they married in the home is hers. However he spent, lets say 40k plus his work, and increased the value of the home by 100k. He is saying he is entitled to half of THAT.

You are correct about the house they bought together.

And just to clarify - the value of HIS previous home that he still owns has declined significantly, because right before all this started he gutted the master bath and removed it because the wall behind the shower rotted out. And when she destroyed the DW in their house he just pulled the one out of that house and installed it in the new one, figuring he would deal with it once they sold her house. So his house looks like an unfinished construction zone. Which is how it will stay until the divorce is final.

As for her foreclosure - A little birdy told her exhusband#1 that his kids were going to be out in the street and his credit was going into the sh!tter on that house (he is still on it remember) so he cut a check to get it out of foreclosure. He now has a lien to get that back and pays the mortgage himself deducting it from his CS (a judge ordered that - I was SHOCKED one would touch CS like that, but her ex's income is 1.5mil a year so I would imagine they don't even HAVE a guideline at that amount and she still gets a healthy amount of CS).

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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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1966Gal
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: elliesmom]
      #724175 - 01/14/11 08:29 AM

I'm confused. I didn't think that they bought a house together. He brought a home into the marriage and she brought a home into the marriage, no?

Did she contribute towards the mortgage of the home your dad brought into the marriage? Did she pay rent to him? Did she contribute to the household finances?

--------------------
The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.


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elliesmom
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: 1966Gal]
      #724178 - 01/14/11 08:45 AM

They kind of bought a house together. My dad found and bought the house a month before their wedding and only his name was on it. The downpayment was his portion of his mother's estate. This was the third house. He had a house from before that he was living in that he still owns (the one in dire need of repairs). Their intention was to sell her house, live in the newest house, but keep my dad's old house to move into when her kids had all graduated. All of that never materialized.

So technically - I guess he brought 2 houses into the marriage.

She never worked really - as she lied about completing her degree she was still "working" on that. He was trying to help her finish that and ultimately hired her at one of his businesses. He got her hired somewhere else before the ugliness started even though she did not have the certification. But she never made enough to cover her expenses so he generally cut her a check to pay her bills (which she stopped doing - not sure where the money went).

--------------------
Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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1966Gal
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: elliesmom]
      #724183 - 01/14/11 09:32 AM

Seems pretty cut and dry to me then. He shouldn't seek to get anything out of her house, but instead seek to enforce the Pre-nup -where they each walk with what they brought into the marriage.

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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.


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yregna
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: elliesmom]
      #724191 - 01/14/11 10:17 AM

He cut her a check for expenses ? Doesn't that mean he is obligated to KEEP CUTTING HER CHECKS ?

He had access to her vagina, she has cancelled check stubs to prove it, thus he has to keep on paying for a certain time, right ? The real arguement is about how long.

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"Anything free is worth what you pay for it..."
"Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get"


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elliesmom
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: yregna]
      #724210 - 01/14/11 11:01 AM

Just to clarify - I doubt he PERSONALLY cut her a check.

He either had someone who owed him money write her a check so he could write the loan off as bad debt or made her a 1099 employee of some business he owned most likely. I don't KNOW that, just my guess. So I suppose it could have appeared that she made some money.

Also - He also found out after they married that she had hid the fact she hadn't paid taxes AT ALL since her divorce. Her income was all alimony so nothing was taken out. She likely owes the govt. some serious money. THey started coming after her after they married. I think he always filed separate from her for this reason.

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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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yregna
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: elliesmom]
      #724294 - 01/14/11 03:53 PM

elliesmom,
When a woman comes in for an interview at my company, if she is attractive, should I assume she is likely to have similar character to your Dad's soon to be ex ?

--------------------
"Anything free is worth what you pay for it..."
"Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get"


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elliesmom
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: yregna]
      #724302 - 01/14/11 04:43 PM

I don't think physical attractiveness has anything to do with moral fiber.

You don't stumble upon morality because you are ugly. It is instilled by parents either by example or rejection of their example.

You want to know what kind of woman your prospect is - look at her mother and her relationship with her. If she has a great relationship with a lecherous bytch mother - well there's your answer.

--------------------
Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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ks_granny
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: elliesmom]
      #724765 - 01/16/11 11:36 PM

DON'T THINK SHE SHOULD BE ENTITLED TO ANY EQUITY ON THE HOME SINCE SHE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, NOT IN HER NAME ETC. AS FAR AS SS, LEGALLY SHE MAY BE ENTITLED TO SOME FOR A COUPLE YEARS, BUT I DON'T THINK SHE WOULD DESERVE IT. I AM ANXIOUS TO SEE HOW IT ALL TURNS OUT. I AM HAVING ISSUES MYSELF BECAUSE I MOVED INTO MY HUSBAND'S FARM AND LEFT TO A LOWER PAYING JOB BECAUSE OF DISTANCE AND HOURS AND DID ALL THE UPDATING ON HIS HOME. SO WE'LL SEE........ GOOD LUCK.

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yregna
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: 1966Gal]
      #724874 - 01/17/11 01:31 PM

1066 Gal,

The key difference in your post is the female ISN'T BREAKING THE LAW, THE MALE IS...

I guess if you are female, that is easy to overlook.

--------------------
"Anything free is worth what you pay for it..."
"Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get"


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Cassie23
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #725279 - 01/18/11 06:42 PM

The women I met was 39 years old but looked around 30, had been married for 20 years, and got alimony for life. She clearly spent gobs of money on herself as evident by her clothes, nails, makeup, hair, tan, vehicle, and what just about had to be a boob job, although I could be wrong (as I didn't ask!)
-------------------------------------------------------

I will be married 20 years at age 40. I am 35 and get mistaken for early 20's.

I just wonder HOW does a 39 year old get alimony for LIFE? Unless she has some type of disability that seems absolutely preposterous! Doesn't sound like a state I would want to live in!


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DedicatedDad
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: Cassie23]
      #725430 - 01/19/11 09:22 AM

The courts here don't look at the person's age, but instead work history, education and length of marriage as primary factors.

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elliesmom
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Re: Just for the statistical purposes... [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #730936 - 02/15/11 08:05 AM

Well, she agreed to abide by the prenup a week before trial and they filed a stipulated filing to their divorce, which is now final.

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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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