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somanyquestions
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Terminal Cancer and Alimony
      #727080 - 01/25/11 08:39 PM

My wife filed for divorce after it was discovered that I have terminal cancer. I was told that once the divorce is final I will have to secure a life insurance policy to cover her alimony after I pass.

Given that I most likely have a short life span, does anyone think I will be able to cut alimony (not child support) after I die, so as much life insurance is handed to my young children? Documenting the timeline from diagnosis to her filing will not be a problem. I don't think she should get a windfall after I die.


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spinnerdegrassi
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: somanyquestions]
      #727094 - 01/25/11 10:59 PM

No one is going to give you a policy with a diagnosis of Terminal Cancer.

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somanyquestions
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: spinnerdegrassi]
      #727128 - 01/26/11 05:13 AM

I am trying to protect my current policies before I was diagnosed and before she filed. I want those to go to my children and I am not sure if the law will require me to give a portion of those as alimony.

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Goodmom
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: somanyquestions]
      #727134 - 01/26/11 06:06 AM

Can you work? And what is your income compared to hers? You may not pay spousal support if your incomes are similar or you are disabled because of your disease. If you are ordered to pay spousal, it usually ends on death of either party or remarriage of the recipient. You really need to get yourself an attorney.

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Miranda
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: somanyquestions]
      #727159 - 01/26/11 07:56 AM

Who told you that and have you even been ordered to pay support yet?

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NoRegrets
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: Miranda]
      #727161 - 01/26/11 08:24 AM

How old are your children?

If she has income you can request that she have a policy with you as a beneficiary as well.

When I divorced I was required to insure the amount of alimony that I would be paying (at today's value). For example if I would be paying $300K in total over 10 years then I needed to make sure I had a policy for say $250K (mutually agreed upon present value). I have a term policy for $1M (obtained well before divorce) and the beneficiaries were essentially rewritten such that the ex receives any remaining alimony at present value (recalculated each year, the kids (actually her) gets amount to cover remaining child support\college and the balance goes to my brother who will manage the funds and distribute to kids as needed after college years. I trust my brother so nothng more formal had been drafted other then our agreement.


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1966Gal
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: somanyquestions]
      #727166 - 01/26/11 08:46 AM

It depends on how old your children are.

Are they minors? If so, I'd request that your life insurance go into a trust and pay out to your wife in the same amount that your CS would be, until they reach adulthood. Then the balance of the trust go to them.

Afterall, your wife is going to need some of your life insurance to help care for the kids. Do you want them to have a "lesser" childhood so they can have an inheritance when they are adults? Not so sure that is the best option.

So sorry for your health issues.

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Avaya
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: 1966Gal]
      #727228 - 01/26/11 12:50 PM

[quote]Are they minors? If so, I'd request that your life insurance go into a trust and pay out to your wife in the same amount that your CS would be, until they reach adulthood. Then the balance of the trust go to them.[/quote]

I wouldn't. Social security benefits would likely be more than the CS would be. I'd put the life insurance proceeds in a trust to pay out to the kids at a certain age or at milestones ..... 25% at age 18, 50% at age 21, 25% at age 25.....

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somanyquestions
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: Avaya]
      #727258 - 01/26/11 02:59 PM

Thanks everyone,

To answer some of the questions so far. My children are young and my top priority is for them to be cared for after I pass. I understand that means my future ex-wife will have access to some of my estate. What I am trying to prevent is a lump sum payment. My understanding of the law in my state (South) is that it would be hard to pay out annually vs. a 1 time payment.

My alimony once it is finalized will be high, therefore a one time lump sum to her at death would be substantial. It would not leave much for my children when they reach adulthood.


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1966Gal
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: somanyquestions]
      #727263 - 01/26/11 03:26 PM

See a lawyer about establishing a trust.

--------------------
The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.


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yregna
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: 1966Gal]
      #727283 - 01/26/11 04:04 PM

Your wife filed for divorce BECAUSE you have terminal cancer ?

Kinda takes the whole idea of gold digger to a new level, really the next step is simply killing you...Right ?

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"Anything free is worth what you pay for it..."
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DedicatedDad
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: yregna]
      #727291 - 01/26/11 04:41 PM

I"d change my will and insurance to someone else so the kids got it all.

If I was court ordered to provide the insurance, I'd pick up a policy, show it the court and cancel it the next day. Let them try to get me for contempt from the grave.

Then, I'd start a new policy for the kids again.


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Goodmom
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #727302 - 01/26/11 05:53 PM

[quote]I"d change my will and insurance to someone else so the kids got it all.

If I was court ordered to provide the insurance, I'd pick up a policy, show it the court and cancel it the next day. Let them try to get me for contempt from the grave. [/quote]

Actually, his stbx would be able to do just that. To the point that the support debt to her gets paid before all other debts are from his estate. An example, he leaves $10K to his sister, he does what you suggest, that $10K will go to his stbx to pay off his debt. And that includes the policy for the kids.


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DedicatedDad
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: Goodmom]
      #727312 - 01/26/11 08:06 PM

I'd sell everything I have right now, and put it into a trust for the kids. The kids would get SS once I was gone.

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Goodmom
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #727318 - 01/26/11 08:53 PM

[quote]I'd sell everything I have right now, and put it into a trust for the kids. The kids would get SS once I was gone. [/quote]

He's not going to get around it. It will be paid out of the trust.

What he needs to do is get any spousal support to end upon his death. And not have any arrears. He also needs to have it modifiable. Because eventually, he isn't going to be able to work (I am assuming that he is still working) and should be able to modify it or eliminate it when that happens.

BTW, it's in my court order (I have a very smart attorney) that my ex and I have to provide proof that the life insurance is paid AND that we are each other's beneficiary annually.


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somanyquestions
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #727321 - 01/26/11 09:06 PM

I never said she divorced me because of the cancer. I can't speak for her and I played my part, but the papers were filed well after the realization of the severity of the disease. Part of my problem, where I take certain actions, some mentioned here, I am setting a course where my executor will have to go through a long and ugly legal battle. I want the law and the judicial system to allow something that is not the norm which is annual payments to provide for the children after I die but instead what I am hearing (thus far) is that a lump sum alimony & child support will be awarded.

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DedicatedDad
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: Goodmom]
      #727333 - 01/26/11 10:16 PM

"He's not going to get around it. It will be paid out of the trust."

If that were the case, I'd turn it all into cash, and have an unknown 3rd party hold it for the kids.

"BTW, it's in my court order (I have a very smart attorney) that my ex and I have to provide proof that the life insurance is paid AND that we are each other's beneficiary annually."

That's an excellent idea. Do you pay your own premium, or your ex's? I would want to pay my ex's and vice versa, to make sure the policy remains in force. If either party didn't pay, then they would only be hurting themselves.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #727334 - 01/26/11 10:19 PM

Give EVERYTHING to a relative, and have THEM set up a trust for the kids.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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spinnerdegrassi
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #727335 - 01/26/11 10:20 PM

That's my thought also. Divest as much as can be done into liquid assets, transfer those to a 3rd party UTR and have it held till the kids are of age. Social security will be paid to cover the cost of CS. I would also cancel all insurance policies to ensure the wife doesn't get hold of anything current.

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finz
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: 1966Gal]
      #727337 - 01/26/11 10:40 PM

I can't really give legal advice on your situation, but I wanted to say that I am sorry for all that you are going through

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Goodmom
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: DedicatedDad]
      #727374 - 01/27/11 06:16 AM

[quote]"He's not going to get around it. It will be paid out of the trust."

If that were the case, I'd turn it all into cash, and have an unknown 3rd party hold it for the kids.

"BTW, it's in my court order (I have a very smart attorney) that my ex and I have to provide proof that the life insurance is paid AND that we are each other's beneficiary annually."

That's an excellent idea. Do you pay your own premium, or your ex's? I would want to pay my ex's and vice versa, to make sure the policy remains in force. If either party didn't pay, then they would only be hurting themselves. [/quote]

A good forensic accountant will be able to determine just what he did with the money. He!!, I know someone who isn't an accountant at all (or a private investigator for that matter) who was able to find where her ex had hidden the marital assets that he turned to cash. Having someone else set up the trust with your money is also obvious and not going to work.

I pay my own premium and he pays his. And we provide proof each year of it being paid in full AND who the beneficiary is.


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Miranda
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: Goodmom]
      #727385 - 01/27/11 07:31 AM

Good God give it up already lady.

Here you go. YOU ARE RIGHT, NO MATTER WHAT...AND YOU CAN FORESEE ANY OUTCOME IN ANY STATE. YOU ARE AMAZING!!!!

Happy now?

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1966Gal
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: spinnerdegrassi]
      #727397 - 01/27/11 08:22 AM

That's my thought also. Divest as much as can be done into liquid assets, transfer those to a 3rd party UTR and have it held till the kids are of age. Social security will be paid to cover the cost of CS. I would also cancel all insurance policies to ensure the wife doesn't get hold of anything current.

+++++++

Horrible idea. What if this 3rd party doesn't give it to the kids and keeps it? What if they get in a car wreck are sued? That money is gone.

A trust is the safest way to make sure the kids get the money. I don't care who the 3rd party is, if you give the money to them, there is NO guarantee that it will end up with the children.

An ironclad trust is the only way to ensure the children get the money exactly as the poster wants.

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The Gov cannot give anything to anyone - that they have not first taken away from someone else.


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DedicatedDad
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: Miranda]
      #727461 - 01/27/11 11:18 AM

I could set up an appointment with the accountant and my ex, count all the cash in front of them, put it in a paper bag, then pour gas over it and burn it.

Now it's accounted for.

I give away 60% of my money now. It doesn't make much difference to me if it's 100% if I'm going to die soon anyway.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: Goodmom]
      #727501 - 01/27/11 12:31 PM

"A good forensic accountant will be able to determine just what he did with the money. He!!, I know someone who isn't an accountant at all (or a private investigator for that matter) who was able to find where her ex had hidden the marital assets that he turned to cash. Having someone else set up the trust with your money is also obvious and not going to work."

And if they find out he gave HIS money away, she can sue the HEADSTONE. Guess what, he is LEGALLY allowed to give HIS money away. Yes, she can sue the estate, but if the estate is LIQUIDATED< and given away, she is SOL.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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hanzblinx
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: gr8Dad]
      #728326 - 01/31/11 01:26 PM

greedy women are a terminal cancer, every married man has this disease

Edited by hanzblinx (01/31/11 01:26 PM)


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Miranda
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: hanzblinx]
      #728343 - 01/31/11 02:44 PM

[quote]greedy women are a terminal cancer, every married man has this disease [/quote]

Wow you just get worse and worse. I forsee a lot of lonely nights in your future.

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yregna
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Re: Terminal Cancer and Alimony [Re: somanyquestions]
      #728620 - 02/01/11 12:24 PM

My Uncle was above 3 million net worth, and his attorney's advised him to give it away BEFORE you die, it is really the only sure way.
After you die, everybody and her sister has reasons why you said and meant and desired ( but never put in writing ) that they get a substantial $$.

Funny how that works...

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"Anything free is worth what you pay for it..."
"Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get"


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