Marquettegrads
recently joined
Reged: 03/30/11
Posts: 8
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I am re-posting this in this more appropriate forum:
I am 49 years old, She is 47.
We have been married 23 years, 1988 to 2011, in Washington County, state of Wisconsin.
I received a BS degree in 1996 and currently make $83K as an engineer
She received a BS degree (from same University as me) in 2001 and currently makes $50K as a Sales Service Rep. We have both worked full time throughout the marriage. We have two daughters, one is currently 18 years old, the other is 20 years old. No child support is to be paid, we agreed. We are trying to do a Pro Se divorce. We have agreed to split all assets, investments and and retirement savings, 50-50. (My current personal investments value is $180K and her current total is $130K) I plan to keep our $220K house (of which we owe $80K) by refinancing it and buying her out of her 50% share. She first asked for $750/month for spousal support for 30 years. I said no way. She has since asked for $500/month for 15 years. Is that fair? She makes $50K per year, was and is employed and capable of supporting herself. If I go to trial to determine spousal support, will she get ANY? Will I be asked to pay MORE than $500/month? I appreciate your advice.
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Marquettegrads
recently joined
Reged: 03/30/11
Posts: 8
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I will add the following.
We are both healthy and able-bodied and have been as such throughout the marriage.
Both of us worked full time throughout the marriage. Although I make 83K now, I made only about $64 K 4.5 years ago before acquiring a better paying job in late 2006.
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hanzblinx
enthusiast
Reged: 08/13/10
Posts: 380
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She is dreaming. I live in CO. Married 12 years.
My income 104K
Wife's income $0 (stay at home mom)
My ex received zero assets (we have none, owe 200K on house worth 180K now) and $800/month alimony for 18 months.
So your wife is in la la land.
Will I be asked to pay MORE than $500/month? NO.
PS- my ex married after 10 months and so didnt collect the full 18. So factor in marriage chances.
Edited by hanzblinx (03/31/11 12:41 PM)
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Debi
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/03/05
Posts: 7136
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Wisconsin is not an alimony friendly state. With the income she has it's unlikely she will get ANY alimony from a judge. If she had been a SAHM with little to no education she would probably get some alimony for a short time while she gets an education.
Even with a long term marriage there is no way she is going to get 30 (or even 15) years of alimony in WI with the circumstances you've described. Even doing the divorce Pro Se my suggestion would be to make a list of questions and contact a family law attorney and find out what their experirnce tells them. (Most will give free consults.)
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When we were together, you said you'd die for me. Now, I think it's time you kept your promise.
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Marquettegrads
recently joined
Reged: 03/30/11
Posts: 8
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Two attorneys gave these free e-mail replies that suggest that the courts will want to "equalize income" and therefore I would be getting a good deal (?) paying her $500 for 15 years.:
Attorney 1) If you net $65,000 and she nets $40,000 with proper withholdings, and if you pay her $6,000 ($500 x 12), then you have $59,000 and she has $46,000, before the effect of you getting a deduction on, and her paying tax on, the $6,000; so your nets would be even further apart, fairly close to a 60/40 split. Please call me if you have more questions.
Attorney 2) What I can tell you is that while there is no actual formula for maintenance (spousal support) in a long term marriage such as yours, the court will frequently equalize the income and unless there is something to actually tie the end of maintenance to, it can be set for an indefinite length of time. Therefore, if you can reach a resolution between the two of you for less than that amount, I would take it and run.
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javajunkiee
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/08
Posts: 3155
Loc: SC
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I've no constructive advice for you but just wanted to say I don't think she should get any money for any length of time. She has a career & she earns a paycheck, but yet she wants to continue to share in your income even though you're about to start two separate lives?
No woman with any self-respect would go for that. Your STBX-wife is a leech. Sorry--
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Marriage doesn't come with a money-back guarantee.
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Marquettegrads
recently joined
Reged: 03/30/11
Posts: 8
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Thanks, "java". Unfortunately, what we think and how the courts behave are very different matters. I just got my third local attorney's advice and it, too, indicates I am gertting a very good deal at $500/mo for 15 years and that it could be much worse. Here is the latest e-mail reply I received.
Attorney #3) Wisconsin case law states that in a long term marriage, the starting point for maintenance is 50/50 total incomes. That is a starting point only, not an ending point. Maintenance is the least precise of all factors that a Court has to decide- it is largely influenced by what the judge thinks achieves a fair result in each particular case and is a very discretionary decision that is usually not subject to being overruled on appeal. You make $33,000 more than she does. Half of that (at 50/50 total income) would be $16,500, which is $1,375 per month. Yes, you could be ordered to pay more than $500 per month.
The duration of maintenance is another issue as well. With a 23 year marriage, the judge could order indefinite maintenance (which means there is no cut off date, but both of you would be able to return to court to request modification of the maintenance if there was a substantial change of circumstances from those that existed or were anticipated at the time of the divorce) or the judge could set any duration the judge felt would be fair in your case. Don’t agree to a 30 year duration- that would bind you to the agreed upon payments well beyond your normal retirement age and the court would hold you to that agreed upon duration because you agreed to it. I think a reasonable and fair duration would be until you hit age 60 which would be 11 years. That is also about half of the length of the marriage and the general rule of thumb we divorce attorneys use is a duration should be between a third to a half of the length of the marriage- but that is only an approximation and rule of thumb we use, and not all judges agree. Each individual case is unique and have different factors that affect maintenance, including the division of property made, the division of debts made, the parties mutual expectations discussed during the marriage of when they would retire, the parties respective needs and living expenses when separated, etc.
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Annie7676
old hand
Reged: 06/05/05
Posts: 862
Loc: NY
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Is there any room for negotiation on this? Or does the law dictate whether you have to pay her alimony?
That seems totally unfair that you should have to pay her any money.
If it is determined that you do have to pay her alimony could you pay her more for her share of the house - at least that way you can have a mortgage for your payment up front to her?
I could see if she was a SAHM but not when someone is working. But just be glad in the end of this that she is not going after your pension and other assets, unless she hasn't figured that part out yet.
Good luck.
Unbelievable.
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yregna
veteran
Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 1265
Loc: Oregon
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I suggest a different course, have a private talk with her, and explain how you would hide the corpse so even CSI wouldn't be able to figure it out...
And as for the kids, it would be an excellent lesson for them, especially if they are female. Your ex-wife obviously thinks you are a coward, its up to you to prove her wrong, or PAY. Simple as that...
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"Anything free is worth what you pay for it..."
"Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get"
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Maury
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 8146
Loc: This Asylum --->
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In Wisconsin, the starting point for a spousal maintenance evaluation of a long-term marriage is to consider an equal division of total income. Schmitt v. Schmitt, 201 WI App. 78, 242 Wis. 2d 565, 626 N.W.2d 14.
A 20 year marriage is generally considered the threshhold of a long term marriage. As a result, you must rebut the presumption for a spousal maintenance award which essentially takes the incomes of both parties, adds them together and then divides by two. Given the relative youth of the parties, it would seem there are many arguments in that regard.
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