celesteanne
enthusiast
Reged: 03/12/05
Posts: 313
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I found out from my 9 year old son that his father has been giving him his(father's) 5mg ritalin in the late afternoon after my son's adhd medicine, vyvanse has worn off. I email his father asking him if it was true and he admitted that he had spoken with our son about the possibility of taking the ritalin and that his pediatrician said it was ok for him to take his medicine which by the way is NOT true.
I am upset on 3 levels...
1. father should NOT be giving our son ANY medication that is not prescribed to son.
2. father should not be teaching son that it is ok to take someone else's prescription
3. father should not be involving the pediatrician in his lies.
What I don't understand is why father never told me that he was having a hard time with son and maybe was concerned about his current dose. It has been the summer time and so the meds are not as obvious as they are during the school year.
I have sole legal custody and any medical changes and concerns need to come by me first. But besides that...what happened to co-parenting?
I am so scared by his fathers poor judgement to give a 9 year old ritalin without a doctor prescribing it. I do not want to cause a war as we have a very toxic relationship but I am concerned for our son's safety. I called CPS last night and reported it.
I am now afraid of what I have done....I don't regret calling CPS because I have to protect our son of course but I don't know....
Any thoughts?
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gr8Dad
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Did you consult with the child's therapist that has prescribed the vyvanse in regards to a "bumper" med for the problems when the vyvanse wears off? I ask because my daughter was on Concerta for a while and we had Adderal in order to cover late nights.
Personally, since he appears to be cooperating and you seem to be accepting that something needs to be done in the evenings, it might have been better to contact the therapist and get a replacement for the Ritalin he has been using. CPS will have a hard time proving abuse (and personally, I don't think there was any) since there wasn't a negative outcome, and most likely, th therapist will do the same, prescribe a mood leveling med.
On that same note, have you investigated Stratterra? It is a 27 hour med, so there is no "off" time.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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finz
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Reged: 06/17/08
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I'd be tempted to also call your ex's physician and report this.....although you may want to consider that if he is shut off by his doctor, he may steal your son's meds.
Report it to the police.
Does your ex have any response to your asking WTF he was thinking ?
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gr8Dad
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Why would you advise calling the POLICE? Here is a guy who has a kid that has ADHD, the mom ADMITS that the meds are wearing off, so he TRIED something. He isn't HIDING it, he ADMITTED it. Why does there seem to be more interest in making him PAY, than there is in fixing the PROBLEM?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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finz
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You can't think of A SINGLE possible remedy other than ILLEGALLY administering a schedule II drug, prescribed for someone else, to a minor ?
Call me crazy, but when faced with the same situation, I asked my son's pediatrician for a short acting med to take on evenings when he needed help to keep his focus.
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finz
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Coincidentally, same son of mine this week is complaining of severe back pain after carrying his guitars around a Boston college campus band camp this week.
Silly me, I've been giving him nightly massages, took him to the pediatrician, booked the chiro, gave him some Motrin and icyhot........Should I have just tossed him some Vics instead ? Maybe some MS Contin instead ? I'm sure that would have helped ease the pain.....
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gr8Dad
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"You can't think of A SINGLE possible remedy other than ILLEGALLY administering a schedule II drug, prescribed for someone else, to a minor ?"
I can think of a number of other remedies. But I am also not saying I wouldn't TRY it. If the Dad is taking Ritlin for ADHD, giving it to a child that is already medicated for ADHD as a bumper to get through an evening is something I would consider.
Now tell me, if the child is ALREADY being medicated for a KNOWN condition (thereby negating any claims of "guessing" what is wrong), and the father is ALSO being medicated for the SAME or very SIMILAR condition, what we are really talking about is who's NAME is on the bottle. I consider myself quite knowledgeable about ADHD meds, and with the doctor's approval, have been the one to determine dosage levels when we were medicating my daughter.
Now, you will say but he didn't HAVE the doctor's approval. SO what? Who was harmed? The boy did okay, Dad admitted to it, probably won't do it again, a "problem" was diagnosed (the child needing meds later in the evening).
Ritlin is NOT harmful. People have been known to use dosages in excess of 200 mg. The kid took FIVE mg.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Redlegg
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Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26804
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It never ceases to amaze me. How many different drugs can it interact with, physical conditions unknown to the parent, amount of dosage. The internet is a great thing, but it is not the answer to everything. Doctors are professionals, who continue to study their craft, as there are new developments on a constant basis.
Before I would pretend to know enough about medicine to start dosing my child with prescription drugs, I would either go to an urgent care clinic or the ER, or I would wait a day and make an appointment, there are quite a few options before the what the heck, it doesn't hurt me and I looked it up on the internent approach. You are free to do what you want. By any normal standards, not to mention the law, giving presription meds to some without the advice of a Dr is reckless at best, deadly at worst, but either way, it is not something anyone should recommend to anyone else....
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LexieBelle
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Reged: 11/07/10
Posts: 3680
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Please. Doctors see you/your kid for how long? How often? Medicine-wise, doctors don't have access to any more information on anything than any other human does. And, I guarantee you, doctors do NOT take the time (it would logistically impossible) to FULLY investigate EVERY medication they may prescribe.
further, if you think every doctor remembers every detail of every child? You're insane or stupid. For example, dd has one of THE best pediatricians in the state. #1 pedi in the state numerous times, on the cover of a magazine for it, blah blah blah. He has no recollection of whether dd has had an allergy test. He asks me every visit. HE ordered the allergy test, and it was done in HIS lab. "Does she have allergies?" Nooooo, that's why we ran a $600 blood test. In NY we had great docs. Her ENT is a top ENT in the state, head of the pediatric oranwhatever it is society, on the board at Cornell-Weill etc. Had never heard of cyclic vomiting.. insisted I was completely wayyyy off base. Guess what? He ate crow and he DID apologize for it. She did, indeed, have cyclic vomiting. I accurately diagnosed it after keeping careful track/records, and doing an enormous amount of internet research. Cost $26,000 and 2 days in a hospital for the docs to say "oh yeah, she's got cyclic vomiting syndrome".
She's on veramyst now. By using MY rx first. I know her symptoms, I know her patterns. When it was prescribed for me it was like a miracle with what it did for my sinuses. I researched it heavily, consulted several pharmacists and started administering it. It's done exactly what it did for me and her doctor gladly prescribed it when I went to him a month later and asked for her own scrip. And he is well aware I started her on it, off my own rx. She's now on an asthma regimen.. I was halfway there with the veramyst. He merely added the same medication (fluticasone propionate) that I was already using for her nasal breathing passages, for her bronchials/lungs.
Her pediatrician said this to me.. being a parent? is much like being a detective. You watch, you observe, you monitor, you watch patterns, you take notes, you investigate, and you come up with a theory/solution. As he said, "I spend a few minutes with your child, when there's an acute problem.. YOU spend every day with your child, YOU see what happens.. what are the triggers, what are the patterns, if you do this then that happens. Why would I NOT listen to you? "
My ex has ZERO use for doctors. And if I had a dollar for every time he said "YOU know what you're doing, don't let them push you around. I 100% back you up", I'd be out of debt ;)
I don't see a CPS/police issue here, I really really don't. Seems terribly dramatic to me. And I 100% agree with Gr8.
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ssmom79
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Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 7806
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I don't think I'd call CPS over this. But you were concerned and you called them. Now you wait for the investigation and the fallout. Your three levels of being upset are valid concerns, just not ones I'd take up with CPS.
You say you and your ex have a toxic relationship which is like why he attempted to self medicate the child without talking to you. This is wrong but likely why he didn't mention the issues he has with son.
I do agree the dad shouldn't be giving him meds that aren't prescribed. Finz mentioned dad sharing more harmful drugs, which I think would cause me to call CPS. But giving an ADHD diagnosed child the smallest dosage of an ADHD medication isn't going to do it, for me.
I would definitely use this as a learning tool for your child. At nine years old, he can understand the values you are teaching including being honest and not taking other people's medicine. Perhaps this call to CPS will keep your ex from attempting to self medicate in the future.
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MrsB
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I have a friend who got sick once - just a normal average sinus infection or something. He took a prescribed med of his moms - and would up with a rare degenerative bone disease. Before he was 30 he had a cane and had both hips replaced.
I'd call CPS if DS was given ANY prescribed medication like this that is not prescribed for him. I wouldn't even give him antibiotics prescribed to someone else.
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celesteanne
enthusiast
Reged: 03/12/05
Posts: 313
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I spoke with my son's pediatrician and his therapist and they both stated they would NEVER tell son's father that it would be ok to give our son his (father's) ritalin. They also said that they have NOT spoken with father about any problems with son at all. I have sole legal custody so any changes or treatment has to be approved by me to begin with.
On a side note...Son has made honor roll, played in the school band, an accomplished cub scout and a dynamite baseball player.
I don't like ADHD medications but I feel that during the most constructive part of the day, it is important for son to feel like he has more control of himself, so he takes vyvanse. In the evening when it wears off, he gets a good dinner and a very structured evening full of activities and one on one and it works very well.
The bottom line is that I am very afraid of the casual attitude of his father in regards to sharing his medication. One, this is ritalin, it is a controlled substance. Son should NEVER be "comfortable" taking someone else's meds. And a parent should NEVER offer theirs. I don't care if it is a prescribed antibiotic ointment, or an antihistamine...I don't care...it is against the law for a reason.
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2019
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[quote]
I can think of a number of other remedies. But I am also not saying I wouldn't TRY it. If the Dad is taking Ritlin for ADHD, giving it to a child that is already medicated for ADHD as a bumper to get through an evening is something I would consider.[/quote]
Then go to a DOCTOR and get a prescription IN THE CHILD'S name.
There is a reason one isn't supposed to take medication that is legally prescribed to someone else. While CPS won't do anything about what the father did, his medical neglect (and giving a child medication that is prescribed to someone else is medical neglect, but I'm sure you will come back and claim that it isn't) put the child in danger. Only a DOCTOR should be prescribing medications that require a prescription to anyone.
I would have thought that that was just plain common sense.
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2019
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[quote]Please. Doctors see you/your kid for how long? How often? Medicine-wise, doctors don't have access to any more information on anything than any other human does. And, I guarantee you, doctors do NOT take the time (it would logistically impossible) to FULLY investigate EVERY medication they may prescribe. [/quote]
Unlike the father of the child in question, a doctor CAN LEGALLY prescribe medication that requires a prescription. The father in this case, illegally acted like a doctor and prescribed a controlled substance to a minor child.
And anybody who thinks that what the father did is okay is 100% wrong.
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gr8Dad
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"I spoke with my son's pediatrician and his therapist and they both stated they would NEVER tell son's father that it would be ok to give our son his (father's) ritalin. They also said that they have NOT spoken with father about any problems with son at all."
Is it possible he spoke with HIS therapist?
"I don't like ADHD medications but I feel that during the most constructive part of the day, it is important for son to feel like he has more control of himself, so he takes vyvanse. In the evening when it wears off, he gets a good dinner and a very structured evening full of activities and one on one and it works very well."
That is just it, it works for YOU. Apparently, Dad is having a problem with his actions during the evenings he is with him. Has Dad addressed this problem to you at all? What appears to be happening is that YOUR plan, that YOU have to approve, is working for YOU, but you are failing to consider if it is working for DAD as well. And SINCE you have sole authority, you have a responsibility to make sure all aspects of the child's life is addressed by the treatment.
"The bottom line is that I am very afraid of the casual attitude of his father in regards to sharing his medication."
Couldn't it just as easily be said that YOUR casual attitude toward the way the child is acting with Dad, causing him to consider medicating him, to be wrong? Your attitude appears to be one of, "Well, MY plan works for ME, and too damn bad if Dad has trouble with it..."
If you have expressed this attitude TO Dad, I can COMPLETELY understand why he is trying thing without ASKING you first.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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gr8Dad
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As the mother has made clear, he is not ALLOWED to take the child to the doctor, and she is not interested in medicating him in the evenings. So what is Dad to do?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2019
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[quote]As the mother has made clear, he is not ALLOWED to take the child to the doctor, and she is not interested in medicating him in the evenings. So what is Dad to do? [/quote]
Talk to the mother and stop acting like he's a doctor and prescribing a controlled substance to a minor child. Because that is exactly what he did when he gave his son the father's prescription medicine.
How can the mother discuss the issue with a doctor when the father NEVER even brought up the issues he was having?
What the father did was 100% wrong, irresponsible AND dangerous. He has no idea how the controlled substance that he illegally prescribed for his son will interact with other medications the child is taking. He is not a doctor and should not have acted like he was one.
BTW, she never said she wouldn't consider having a prescription available for the child when at the father's. What she said was that she would prefer he didn't (and she can LEGALLY do that without any input by the father) and has found a solution that works for her. Chances are, if the father had actually TALKED to the mom about their child and the issues he was having, she probably would have gotten a prescription that he could take at his Dad's when the other medication wears off.
And who's to say that the child's doctor, who knows what other medications the child is taking, would have prescribed Ritalin? S/he may have chosen a different medication, or a different dose than what the father illegally gave the child.
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celesteanne
enthusiast
Reged: 03/12/05
Posts: 313
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gr8 Dad...I understand what you are saying but I just don't feel that ADHD meds are the final answer.
It still scares me that a parent is not worried more about the potential side effects than maybe having a rough evening. To me his father was VERY reckless with his VERY selfish behavior....as a parent...you put your children first...end of story...bottom line...just because he slept at a Holiday Inn, does not make him a doctor...sorry..had to smile or else I will cry...
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celesteanne
enthusiast
Reged: 03/12/05
Posts: 313
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thank you everyone...
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gr8Dad
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"Talk to the mother and stop acting like he's a doctor and prescribing a controlled substance to a minor child. Because that is exactly what he did when he gave his son the father's prescription medicine."
We do not know if he DID or DID NOT talk to Mom. And as I will address with her below, she STILL has not said if he did or did not talk with her.
"He has no idea how the controlled substance that he illegally prescribed for his son will interact with other medications the child is taking. He is not a doctor and should not have acted like he was one."
Actually, if he is prescribed the meds, he may very well know what the interactions are. Tell me you know that doctors don't MEMORIZE all drug interactions, they use reference material, available all of us.
"What she said was that she would prefer he didn't (and she can LEGALLY do that without any input by the father) and has found a solution that works for her."
Oh yes, she has made her "control" of the situation quite clear.
"Chances are, if the father had actually TALKED to the mom about their child and the issues he was having, she probably would have gotten a prescription that he could take at his Dad's when the other medication wears off."
Again, we don't KNOW that he DIDN'T speak to her.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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gr8Dad
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Posts: 30372
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"gr8 Dad...I understand what you are saying but I just don't feel that ADHD meds are the final answer."
So besides the meds, what other methods are you exploring for treatment?
"It still scares me that a parent is not worried more about the potential side effects than maybe having a rough evening."
See, you are STILL seeing this as Dad did it to make DAD'S life easier. Tell me, are you medicating the child to make YOUR life easier, or to make the CHILD'S life better?
"To me his father was VERY reckless with his VERY selfish behavior...."
Again, why is YOUR medication for the "child", while DAD trying medication is deemed selfish.
So, to answer once and for all, HAS Dad come to you or indicated to you that there has been a problem with the child during the evenings he spends with the child?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2019
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[quote]"Talk to the mother and stop acting like he's a doctor and prescribing a controlled substance to a minor child. Because that is exactly what he did when he gave his son the father's prescription medicine."
We do not know if he DID or DID NOT talk to Mom. And as I will address with her below, she STILL has not said if he did or did not talk with her.[/quote]
From her very first post:
"What I don't understand is why father never told me that he was having a hard time with son and maybe was concerned about his current dose. It has been the summer time and so the meds are not as obvious as they are during the school year."
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2019
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[quote]"He has no idea how the controlled substance that he illegally prescribed for his son will interact with other medications the child is taking. He is not a doctor and should not have acted like he was one."
Actually, if he is prescribed the meds, he may very well know what the interactions are. Tell me you know that doctors don't MEMORIZE all drug interactions, they use reference material, available all of us.[/quote]
We are not talking about an adult here. We are talking about a CHILD here. The father ISN'T a doctor and had no business at all prescribing medication to the child. And that is just what he did, acted like a doctor and prescribed a controlled substance.
You aren't going to get around that no matter how hard you try. The father IS 100% wrong to have done what he did and can get into a whole lot of legal trouble for acting like a doctor with a controlled substance.
You said:
Again, we don't KNOW that he DIDN'T speak to her.
My response:
Again? You really should have read the very first post in this thread.
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gr8Dad
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I have to add something here. First of all, apparently I missed it, you seem to indicate that he HASN'T spoken to you about the problem, but if you could verify that, I would appreciate it.
Now I want you to consider something. You wrote:
"I have sole legal custody and any medical changes and concerns need to come by me first. But besides that...what happened to co-parenting?"
Can you see how this line indicates dual expectations? You are, on one hand, telling him that YOU have SOLE and FINAL say in ALL things...and then asking why HE can't "co-parent". Essentially, you are saying HE won't co-parent, because he won't give YOU all the control. One person having sole say in everything is NOT co-parenting. As a matter of fact, that is the OPPOSITE of co-parenting. If you want him to be onboard with the decisions regarding the child, you have to admit that he is the child's parent just as much as you are, and should have some say.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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gr8Dad
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Posts: 30372
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"We are not talking about an adult here. We are talking about a CHILD here."
I was talking about the DAD being knowledgeable about medicine interactions. If he is prescribed Ritlin, he PROBABLY has adult ADD or adult ADHD, and could VERY WELL be quite knowledgeable about the interactions.
"And that is just what he did, acted like a doctor and prescribed a controlled substance."
No, he gave the kid a PILL. Jesus, he didn't give him a BOTTLE, he gave the kid the SMALLEST POSSIBLE DOSAGE of a COMMONLY prescribed medication for children as a bumper for rough evenings.
"Again? You really should have read the very first post in this thread."
As I wrote in my last post to her, I did miss that. She vaguely indicated that she was unaware of the issues. Hopefully she can clarify it. But she ALSO made it clear that SHE had control (a common misconception with parents that have sole legal/physical custody). Hopefully these things can be clarified.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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SweetLight
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/07/10
Posts: 2016
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"Again, why is YOUR medication for the "child", while DAD trying medication is deemed selfish."
----->Because the only meds the child needs to be taking are ones prescribed by his doctor.
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gr8Dad
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Posts: 30372
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Dad CAN'T take the child to the doctor, she has made THAT perfectly clear. So what is Dad to do?
Place yourself in his shoes. He has a child with a DIAGNOSED condition, he is diagnosed with a VERY similar condition, he has NO say in the treatment, and apparently, Mom is not concerned about anything but how it affects HER time (now I COULD be wrong on this, I have asked a number of times and gotten no response, so if he IS involved in the treatment plan, that would change things). What would YOU do?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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SweetLight
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/07/10
Posts: 2016
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Having some say doesn't equate to administering his own prescription to his minor child. Let’s just suppose that most parents don’t know jack about prescribing meds. LB is comfortable doing it, but if her ExH took it upon himself to give her DD his own meds, she’d flip her lid. I think it boils down to what you are perceiving as control. Remember this is about the child.
“Mom is not concerned about anything but how it affects HER time”
----->Not sure where you got that from?
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gr8Dad
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Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30372
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"Let’s just suppose that most parents don’t know jack about prescribing meds. LB is comfortable doing it, but if her ExH took it upon himself to give her DD his own meds, she’d flip her lid."
But we are not talking abotu MOST parents, we are talking about a parent that has the SAME CONDITION, and he didn't FIND the medicine, its HIS medication.
"Remember this is about the child."
Really? Cause that is what I thought, but apparently this is MOSTLY about BLAME, and pointing the finger at Dad.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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finz
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/17/08
Posts: 6489
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[quote]Dad CAN'T take the child to the doctor, she has made THAT perfectly clear. So what is Dad to do?
Place yourself in his shoes. He has a child with a DIAGNOSED condition, he is diagnosed with a VERY similar condition, he has NO say in the treatment, and apparently, Mom is not concerned about anything but how it affects HER time (now I COULD be wrong on this, I have asked a number of times and gotten no response, so if he IS involved in the treatment plan, that would change things). What would YOU do? [/quote]
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What I wouldn't do is medicate my child with a prescription med that was NOT prescribed for him.
This is a NON EMERGENCY situation. Plenty of time to discuss concerns with ex. If ex refused to discuss and/or address the issue with a doctor, I would ask the courts to force the issue on addressing the problem with a medical profession.
Especially if I had an antagonistic relationship with an ex who had sole legal custody and who was apprehensive about ADHD meds in general, I would never be stupid enough to give her proof of my poor judgement.
There are soooo many levels of idiocy in what he did.....
in no particular order.....
1. don't give ex proof of his poor judgement
2. don't give his kid a prescription med without a doctor's order. Yes, I totally understand Ritalin is similar to what the kid is already taking, so the expected risks are less than with a different type of meds. The doctor may very well have ordered this med for the child. The risk of an adverse effect would be the same, but the risk of liability in giving it to him without a doctor's order are HUGE. A serious adverse effect means you've just poisoned your own kid.
3. don't share prescription meds
4. especially don't share schedule II meds
5. don't teach your kids to take other people's meds
6. don't teach your kids to take schedule II controlled substances that weren't prescribed for them.
7. don't expect to COMMITT A CRIME and have there be no repurcussions.
8. don't let a history of poor communication with an ex prevent you from trying to work on an issue that concerns the kids.
9. take your own damn Ritalin, as ordered, and then maybe you won't be impulsive enough to think this was a good plan.
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2019
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You said:
I was talking about the DAD being knowledgeable about medicine interactions. If he is prescribed Ritlin, he PROBABLY has adult ADD or adult ADHD, and could VERY WELL be quite knowledgeable about the interactions.
My response:
There is a reason why pediatricians exist. Because the bodies of children and adults are different. Up until recently, my son could not take the same over the counter medication that I can. And his pediatrician gave different antibiotics at a different dose than what I got from my doctor.
The father is NOT a doctor and had no business at all giving the child a controlled substance without a doctor's prescription in his son's name.
You said:
No, he gave the kid a PILL. Jesus, he didn't give him a BOTTLE, he gave the kid the SMALLEST POSSIBLE DOSAGE of a COMMONLY prescribed medication for children as a bumper for rough evenings.
My response:
If you need a prescription for that PILL, it IS A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE.
The father acted like a doctor and prescribed a controlled substance to the child. His reason is irrelevant. He was 100% wrong to have given the child a controlled substance. Dosage is irrelevant. He's not a doctor.
Giving the smallest possible dose does not make him a doctor. He's not a doctor.
Have I stressed enough that the father is not a doctor and had no business at all prescribing a controlled substance to the child? You aren't going to get around that. No matter how hard you try.
You said:
As I wrote in my last post to her, I did miss that. She vaguely indicated that she was unaware of the issues. Hopefully she can clarify it. But she ALSO made it clear that SHE had control (a common misconception with parents that have sole legal/physical custody). Hopefully these things can be clarified.
My response:
She said he NEVER discussed it with her. Nothing vague about that.
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2019
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[quote]Again, why is YOUR medication for the "child", while DAD trying medication is deemed selfish.[/quote]
The child's medication (which is a controlled substance) that the mother gives to the child is PRESCRIBED FOR THE CHILD BY AN ACTUAL DOCTOR.
The controlled substance that the father illegally gave the child was not the child's prescription.
Not only was that selfish of the father, it was dangerous.
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LexieBelle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/10
Posts: 3680
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Good grief... way overdramatizing it. Really. Lighten up.
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2019
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[quote]Good grief... way overdramatizing it. Really. Lighten up. [/quote]
I'm not overdramatizing anything.
What the father did was illegal. And he could be prosecuted for doing what he did.
People really shouldn't downplay or defend the fact that the father dispensed a controlled substance (and Ritalin is a controlled substance) to the child without a doctor prescribing it for the child. The father was wrong, plain and simple.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30372
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Fine, WHY was it "selfish" of the father? What did the father GAIN by giving the child the pill?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2019
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[quote]Fine, WHY was it "selfish" of the father? What did the father GAIN by giving the child the pill? [/quote]
The father had issues with dealing with the child. Rather than go through the proper channels, including discussing with the mother, who has sole legal custody, he chose to give his child a controlled substance so that he didn't have to deal with the issues.
You aren't going to get around the fact that what the father did was wrong.
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LexieBelle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/10
Posts: 3680
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Yeah, okay... I'm sure he'll do way hard time for giving ONE pill. You're a control freak/drama queen.
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ssmom79
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 7806
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People really shouldn't downplay or defend the fact that the father dispensed a controlled substance (and Ritalin is a controlled substance) to the child without a doctor prescribing it for the child. The father was wrong, plain and simple.
______________________________________
He was certainly wrong. I totally agree. My opinion is not to downgrade or defend.
I take my mom's migraine medicine when I do not have any of my own kind. I've even used my father-in-law's migraine meds. I look back at my mom, who gave me my sisters pink penicillin when I was sick and do not see a need for CPS to be called. I see my kid's BM administer meds between kids if they suffer from the same symptoms like a sinus illness. Because the doctor is going to prescribe the same thing. But I would not call CPS. Maybe I am setting myself up for a problem later. Something to think about.
If someone felt my mom was less of a parent, or BM is less of a parent because of those choices, then they can parent their child their way. But for me, I am OK dealing with this sort of an issue without CPS.
Goodmom said this: "The father had issues with dealing with the child. Rather than go through the proper channels, including discussing with the mother, who has sole legal custody, he chose to give his child a controlled substance so that he didn't have to deal with the issues."
And I totally agree there. He is wrong for what he did and that should be dealt with. I just don't agree that CPS is the proper channel. But hey, it's not my kid. I'm not in a toxic relationship, and BM and I see eye to eye on this issue. Maybe if I wasn't in my own situation I would feel differently.
And I totally understand that a universal med like penicillin isn't Ritalin, however, the act is the same. It's sharing a med.
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ssmom79
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 7806
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Totally...lol!
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2019
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[quote]Yeah, okay... I'm sure he'll do way hard time for giving ONE pill. You're a control freak/drama queen. [/quote]
Actually, you are the drama queen. Do hard time for a first time offense, if the mother pursues legal action, is definitely going overboard.
BAER.
BTW, recognizing that the father did something very wrong is not being a control freak/drama queen. It's called knowing what the law is. The fact that there are posters (and it really doesn't surprise me who the posters are, including you) defending an illegal act is, well, just plain wrong.
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2019
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[quote] Because the doctor is going to prescribe the same thing. But I would not call CPS. Maybe I am setting myself up for a problem later. Something to think about. [/quote]
I distinctly recall stating that CPS probably wouldn't do anything about it.
I would have a problem with my ex giving either kid a prescription medicine without a doctor's prescription. But then, he works in the medical field and wouldn't do something that stupid.
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c_jane
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/06/07
Posts: 1759
Loc: In the Great State of Texas
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It is POSSIBLE that the kid's DR. KNEW the medicine would 'wear out' in the afternoons. Sometimes kids on behavior meds are 'encouraged' not to take them during weekends/summer/vacations to give their bodies a 'break' and so the lowest dose of the prescribed meds will continue to work as expected.
The MOM has a tight schedule for her son for the afternoons, so he's ABLE to adjust/cope with the meds wearing off. The DAD is taking the easy way out and over-medicating the boy so he DOESN'T have to deal with the son and his behavior.
Dad needs to talk with the Mom and see how SHE deals with it. Dad needs some parenting skills and PATIENCE. I agree with another poster -- instead of DAD giving the SON his Ritalin, he needs to take it HIMSELF!!
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John Constantine: God's a kid with an ant farm.... He's not planning anything.
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ssmom79
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 7806
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I am not stupid and I'd appreciate if you'd not refer to me or my mother that way, thanks. Not really necessary to be insulting or condescending. If that is how you prefer to deal with people, then I'll take note and not converse with you.
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2019
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[quote]I am not stupid and I'd appreciate if you'd not refer to me or my mother that way, thanks. Not really necessary to be insulting or condescending. If that is how you prefer to deal with people, then I'll take note and not converse with you. [/quote]
Then I will rephrase:
It shows extremely poor judgement to give someone a medication that is controlled enought to require a prescription from a physician to a person other than who the prescription is made out to.
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ssmom79
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 7806
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Thanks for attempting a fix. Most wouldn't care to do that. I still stand by the opinion that my mother didn't use poor judgement but you are certainly entitled to your opinion in that regard.
However, to the OP I think it was very poor to attempt to 'fix' the issue he had with his son while in his care. I hope the OP gets the desired outcome she seeks to avoid her ex attempting that kid of a fix.
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elliesmom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 8835
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I don't care how awful this child was with his father - and I certainly would understand his frustration if he had approached the SLC mom and she told him to F off - but it doesn't matter. What he did was reckless, illegal, and flat out horrible example for the child. No matter how frustrated you get over a behavior issue - this is not life/death - you don't do what he did. He has no idea how much to give a child, much less a child who is already on something else. And no fecking way did he discuss this with his therapist - no therapist/doctor who wants to keep his/her license would advise a patient on how to illegally medicate a child.
That said I don't know what you'd do. CPS probably won't do much if anything as he is the NCP. Hopefully being educated will be enough to get him to stop.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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gr8Dad
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Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30372
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Keep in mind, I am NOT saying that what he did was the BEST thing, but as a person who has a child with ADHD, and is QUITE knowledgeable about the medications (the info is available online and from a number of sources), what he did was NOT "dangerous".
What many may not be understanding is that psychotropic medication is NOT an exact science. What he did, trying a medication to see the result, is EXACTLY what a doctor does. They choose a medication, give a small dose, watch the effects, increase the dose until the required results are obtained, and stick with that dosage. 5 mg is the MINIMUM does they give.
Now, not all ADHD meds work the same. Some are cumulative (like zoloft) where you do not see any effects until they med has been taken regularly. Others, like Ritalin or Adderall are instant on meds, meaning they have an effect after the first dose.
I know this because I have dealt with the condition. As for those that have said no doctor would do this or that, they are wrong. My daughter's therapist (VERY respected, runs numerous treatment centers including a SCHOOL), when we were playing with her meds, would tell me, "Start her out on this dosage, if it works, great, if not, give her a second pill." For a while, she was on Concerta, which is a 12 hour med, we had a prescription for Adderall, which was given at OUR discretion, if she was having a a bad night, had a late night, etc.
We are NOT talking about high blood pressure medicine, antibiotics, etc. Psychotropic medication works differently. Straterra is a PERFECT example. For some kids, it works WONDERS. Others kids? Absolutely NO effect whatsoever.
What I am saying is what Dad did, trying a medication to see the effect, is EXACTLY what therapists do.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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elliesmom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 8835
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I have dealt with these meds and SD and SS as well. And I know some you try, they ramp up, and then give up and move on. But no therapist of an adult is going to advise him on how to medicate his child with his meds, nevermind a child they have never seen. And our Dr, since SD was under 12, sent her for a CBC and and other blood test screens before scribing anything.
With that in mind - he did this without the advisement of a physician and just by the seat of his pants. Very bad judgement. I assume since he did not try to hide it - he did so out of ignorance and not reckless disregard for his kid - and hopefully he will stop now.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30372
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I guess that is what is bugging me the most. The way his actions are being viewed. Yeah, what he did, as I said, wasn't the best thing, it is being viewed as "selfish". Why is that? As a parent of a child with ADHD, I assure you, medication is not given so I have a more peaceful time, it is given to help the CHILD. And the DUAL view is even MORE frustrating. Mom medicates the kid so the kid can be successful. Dad medicates the kid and he is painted like he ONLY did it so the kid wouldn't be a pain in the butt to Dad. Mom brags how the "structure" in the kids life is what she uses to control him. Well, its REALLY hard to have "structure" with a child you only get one evening a week (not counting weekends).
Now, we have debated whether Mom KNEW about how the child was acting at Dad's. We know that Dad didn't TELL Mom there was a problem. My question THEN would be, why didn;t she ASK? She BRAGGED about how SHE has TOTAL say in ALL treatment issues. So why hasn't she ASKED Dad how the child was acting? When you take SOLE control of something, you also have SOLE responsibility. But HER time with the child is fine because of the treatment plan. She had a RESPONSIBILITY to SEEK out how things were going with Dad.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Redlegg
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26804
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She had a RESPONSIBILITY to SEEK out how things were going with Dad.
maybe she googled it.....you know, checked his FB.....
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DedicatedDad
veteran
Reged: 09/05/04
Posts: 1318
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I wouldn't give my kids medications that aren't prescribed, but I wouldn't have called CPS.
I would have set up a med review with the child's Dr. so my ex and I could get the regiment changed to fit the child's needs.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30372
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Well, I have asked her a number of times what she did to assure that the child's behavior while at Dad's was being considered, I have yet to get an answer.
But she DID make it clear that SHE had TOTAL control.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Redlegg
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26804
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Yes, she did, and she does, doesn't make it right, I am thinking maybe the right answer is both of them are wrong, no need to call CPS, not now, not yet, or the police. What's done is done, it is time to figure it out. He was wrong for doing it, regardless of his intent. She was wrong fro calling CPS. She now knows there is an issue, and even though she has total control, she needs to work with him to find a solution. Hopefully he will understand not to do it again, but no need to crucify him for what he did, and she knows that Dad needs to be involved regardless of how much control she legally has....
So regardless what she did, or what he did, or how wrong they both are, they need to move forward not do what they have been doing, and get this thing right....
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30372
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Agreed wholeheartedly. I guess some of it is that having dealt with CPS, and some may deny this, men and women are treated differently.
It may appear that I am excusing HIS actions, and being hard on her, but if HE was here, I would be just as hard on him.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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