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caroljean
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Problems with EX
      #761341 - 09/01/11 06:46 PM

My daughter is involved in a child custody case. the soon to be ex husband is causing all sorts of problems not just for my daughter but for the whole family.
in december of 2010 my daughter decided to leave the relationship after just a few months. I had to call the police to be there because he refused to allow my daughter to leave. He stabbed himself with a cooking fork and accused my daughter of stabbing him. the police report states the wound was self inflicted. on the advice of the police, we left without my daughters belongings.
My daughter was pregnant at that time, gave birth to baby girl May 23, 2011.
Since December, my daughter has tried to avoid him as much as possible. other then in court, she has not had any contact with him. although he has been seen driving by our house, and even admits in court that he parked his car on our street. he has shown up at my daughters bank harassing her, and has gone to my daughters work making threats to her co-workers. we made a police report about the above and was told that he had not broken the law, that it is not considered stalking.
as it got closer to her delivery date (she was due june 10) more problems started. he had my daughter served with court papers. he wanted full custody of the baby, no visitation allowed to my daughter, a DNA test done, cause he stated he wasn't even sure the baby was his, and he even went as far as to ask the courts to order the hospitals' to withhold the baby from my daughter. he had no idea that the baby was born early and was shocked when he learned.
The judge ordered mediation for them both. the mediator recommended a 730 evaluation to be done. it was not ordered by the courts because both attorneys stated that it was too expensive. the judge ordered the soon to be ex husband to make all arrangements for the DNA test, but his attorney stated that he did not have the money. my daughters attorney tried to argue that visitation should not be allowed until paternity could be verified.
the judge granted him supervised visitations 2 hours 3 times a week. these visits last anywhere from 3 minutes to 40 minutes. as soon as the baby is handed to him, she starts to cry/scream. at the beginning of each visit is asked not to give the baby a bottle or a pacifier or the visits will be terminated (the baby is breastfeed). he feels is is beyond rules. He continues to try and give the baby a pacifier stating that is attorney has told him he can. The baby does not like a pacifier, and refuses it, but he will hold it in her mouth. the visits are then terminated by the supervisor. the last two visits have lasted a total of 3 minutes. he is now telling the person who supervises these visits that he is going to sue her with contempt of court.
I am not allowed to be there during the visitation because he filed a restraining order against me accusing me of threatening his life with a 9 mm gun. I do not own any type of firearm. He also filed a restraining order against my husband stating that he also is threatening his life and the life of his mother.
In July both he and his mother were arrested for burglary, she spent 4 days in a county jail, he set bail and goes to court in just a few weeks. doing online research, we have learned that he has filed a total of 8 restraining orders on people.
Because of his behavior during the visits my daughter has asked her attorney to get the visitations stopped, her attorney states that there is nothing that can be done until the November hearing. I find it very difficult to believe that nothing can be done.
this man and his mother is causing a great deal of stress not just for my daughter, but the baby as well as other family members. The baby is showing signs of stress, her eating and sleeping patterns have changed this past several weeks, she does not want to be put down and wants to nurse off mommy almost nonstop.
yesterday while shopping at a local store he went up to family members and was making accusation. it got so bad that they had to reported it to the store manager. my elderly father is very upset and I fear for his health. it is at a point where we do not want to leave the house, not knowing what he will do or accuse one of us of doing.
both he and his mother are manipulative compulsive liars who enjoy hurting others. I am not the only person who believes that he has no interest in the baby, but is using her as a pawn to hurt my daughter.
Today my daughter recieved a letter from her lawyer that was sent from his lawyer stating again even more lies.
My question is.. what can we do, what can my daughter do?


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gr8Dad
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761342 - 09/01/11 06:51 PM

Your daughter is being a control freak. It is easy to say, "Don't give the baby a pacifier" when you HAVE two pacifiers attached to your chest. When the baby is with her, and cries, she pops out a tit. What, exactly, is DAD supposed to do?

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caroljean
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: gr8Dad]
      #761348 - 09/01/11 07:04 PM

There are other ways to comfort a baby other then giving a pacifier. My grand daughter has always refused a pacifier. If the baby does not like them, why force one on her?

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gr8Dad
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761357 - 09/01/11 07:17 PM

So when the baby is with him, does Mom provide breast milk to feed the baby? I mean even YOU are saying that the baby DEMANDS being fed all the time, so what is Dad supposed to do?

It is not an uncommon tactic, using breast feeding to guarantee that ONLY Mommy can have the child all the time, but that will NOT stand. He is EVENTUALLY going to get parenting time with the child.

Tell me, he was initially given supervised parenting time. Why?

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elliesmom
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761358 - 09/01/11 07:17 PM

I would want more information from the supervisor as to why she is terminating the visits after only 3 minutes. And discuss the reason with the attorney. But if that continues to be the case, I would think it would have minimal influence on the baby. But you must realize this man WILL be a part of your life and this child's life unless he chooses not to. So long-term - what really do you want to see? At least with these visits you won't be shipping her off to a stranger later on.

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caroljean
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: elliesmom]
      #761401 - 09/01/11 11:17 PM

the visits are supervised because of the accusations the father keeps making against family and friends. He has accused several people of threatening physical harm on him. this man will go up to someone and accuse them of harassing him.
Yes, the mother provides milk for the baby before, during and after the visits.
the baby does not like pacifiers, has been explained to the father several times. my daughters lawyer has adviced the supervisor to terminate the visits if he continues to give the baby a pacifier. at the begining of each visit the father is reminded not to give the baby the pacifier, he walks over to the table, picks up the pacifier and puts it in the babys mouth. I understand that fathers have rights, and need the time with their children. this man has no desire to bond or have a relationship with this child, it is all a game to him.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761402 - 09/01/11 11:53 PM

Sorry, but your daughter has attempted to keep him away from the child from the beginning. You complain when HE asks for sole custody, but SHE is asking for sole custody, and THAT appears to be okay.

"the visits are supervised because of the accusations the father keeps making against family and friends"

That makes NO sense. He cannot see the baby ALONE, because he accuses OTHER people of things?

"the baby does not like pacifiers, has been explained to the father several times. my daughters lawyer has adviced the supervisor to terminate the visits if he continues to give the baby a pacifier"

You are DAMN lucky HE doesn't have an attorney, because HIS attorney would QUICKLY point out that YOUR attorney does NOT make the rules. And that is a STUPID rule anyway. The baby does not like a pacifier because he doesn't GET a pacifier, and it is something NEW.

You say:

"Yes, the mother provides milk for the baby before, during and after the visits."

But in earlier posts you say:

"is asked not to give the baby a bottle or a pacifier"

So if he is not to give the baby a BOTTLE, how, exactly, is he supposed to FEED the baby, shoot it out of a water gun?!?

"this man has no desire to bond or have a relationship with this child, it is all a game to him."

SO why is he jumping through your STUPID, MADE UP hoops to SEE the child?

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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Maury
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: gr8Dad]
      #761405 - 09/02/11 12:56 AM

It sounds like neither parent will sin parent of the year awards. It would seem parenting time for each must be determined and , based on the post, it would seem both end up with unsupervised time.

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gr8Dad
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: Maury]
      #761406 - 09/02/11 01:40 AM

Oh, I agree, if the facts she is presenting about him filing restraining orders is true, he sounds paranoid. She sounds paranoid about anyone having AANY contact witht he child but her.

However, HE is filing restraining orders through the court, which is apparently approving them. She, on the other hand, appears to be making up the rules as she goes.

What I find odd is the actions of the supervisor. To begin with, that the supervisor would take the word of ONE attorney, and in such an assinine manner (no bottles or pacifiers), is disturbing. That the supervisor would cut the visit short BASED on NO legal precedent or ruling is disturbing.

Honestly, they better hope this guy doesn't get an attorney, because of he DOES, they are in for a RUDE awakening.

ETA: Of course, in regards to him, we ONLY have the word on his ex's Mom. Not sure I would want to be judged by the opinion of my ex mother in law.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

Edited by gr8Dad (09/02/11 01:41 AM)


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Goodmom
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761412 - 09/02/11 04:15 AM

Does your daughter nurse the baby just before the visits? While my ex and I were together at the time that my kids were young and nursing (I won't get into how long other than it was for at least one year as recommended by the AAP). My first one, I had no problem going out without him as he would take a sippy cup with expressed breastmilk. The second one, well, all she wanted to do in the beginning was nurse. Neither one of them had bottles or pacifiers. What we used was a sippy cup (I don't remember the type anymore as it has been years, but it does need to be the kind that will drip) with expressed breastmilk. It would tide them over, except my youngest. Who did flat out refused to use either one. She did well for a couple of hours if I nursed before I left. That didn't get better until she was around a year old and was eating some solids (she wasn't ready for them until around 10 months even though we started trying at 6 months as the AAP recommends for breastfed babies). Both of my kids are now much older and neither one are still nursing. This stage does pass.

It is also common for a stressed out baby to nurse more. It's perfectly normal AND acceptable.

Your daughter probably isn't going to be able to get the visits stopped without cause. But the person supervising the visits is within their rights to end the visits if something is going on that is detrimental to the baby. The father can threaten to sue for contempt all he wants, there is no contempt going on.

Your daughter also needs to journal when the ex is stalking her. It may take a while, but if he continues, she can pursue a restraining order.


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Goodmom
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761413 - 09/02/11 04:17 AM

[quote]the visits are supervised because of the accusations the father keeps making against family and friends. He has accused several people of threatening physical harm on him. this man will go up to someone and accuse them of harassing him.
Yes, the mother provides milk for the baby before, during and after the visits.
the baby does not like pacifiers, has been explained to the father several times. my daughters lawyer has adviced the supervisor to terminate the visits if he continues to give the baby a pacifier. at the begining of each visit the father is reminded not to give the baby the pacifier, he walks over to the table, picks up the pacifier and puts it in the babys mouth. I understand that fathers have rights, and need the time with their children. this man has no desire to bond or have a relationship with this child, it is all a game to him. [/quote]

So, now the question is: Why is there a pacifier in the room? The solution would be to have it removed from the room before he does that.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: Goodmom]
      #761427 - 09/02/11 06:35 AM

"But the person supervising the visits is within their rights to end the visits if something is going on that is detrimental to the baby."

Please explain how giving the baby a pacifier is "detrimental". For once TRY and place yourself in the father's shoes. He is TRYING to spend time with his child, the mother ADMITS that the child requires feeding nearly CONSTANTLY, he gets to the visitation center (where he is supervised for NO reason. He has not, per the original poster, done a SINGLE thing to endanger/harm the child), and is handed the baby. The baby, upset and wanting to eat, begins to cry. Now, when with Mom, the child cries, the child eats. When with DAD, the child cries, and he is not permitted to do ANYTHING that calms the child down. No pacifier, not bottle, NOTHING. SO what is Dad to DO, to calm the child, and begin the bonding process?

Oh, and what the HELL gives mom SOLE right to decide NO pacifiers or bottles?

"The father can threaten to sue for contempt all he wants, there is no contempt going on."

Actually, I think he could make a good case for the mother making arbitrary rules for parenting time (no bottles or pacifiers, or the visitation ends), and denying him HIS parenting time, based on something NOT in the court order. I mean if a parent shows up to pick the kids up, and the other parent sees that the recieving parent is wearing a blue shirt, can the parent say, "Sorry, I don't want the children to be with a parent in a blue shirt, you do not get your parenting time..."? Of course not, that is BLATANT denial of COURT ORDERED parenting time, and is custodial interference.

"Your daughter also needs to journal when the ex is stalking her. It may take a while, but if he continues, she can pursue a restraining order."

For once, could you try reading the post? They TRIED for a restraining order, it was denied. And it would pretty hypocritical to say that DAD gets supervised parenting time because he files for restraining orders...but Mom SHOULD file for a restraining order.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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gr8Dad
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: Goodmom]
      #761428 - 09/02/11 06:37 AM

"So, now the question is: Why is there a pacifier in the room? The solution would be to have it removed from the room before he does that."

You know, that is an interesting thought, I really hadn't considered it. A pacifier is a fairly personal item. Since it goes in the child's mouth, you would not want someone ELSE'S pacifier.

So if the child is NOT to have a bottle or a pacifier...WHY THE HELL DOES THE CHILD EVEN OWN A PACIFIER?

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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elliesmom
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: gr8Dad]
      #761430 - 09/02/11 07:17 AM

I am sorry, but if I had supervised time that would be cut short if I gave my baby a pacifier, even for no good reason, I would not do it. So my sympathy on that is limited.

And if he is showing up at her place of work and following her - if she can establish a pattern she can certainly ask that a restraining order be put in place. Not surprising that only ONE time didn't get one.

Does this man have any person in his life who has experience with babies? grandma, aunt, brother who is a dad? Maybe you could ask that person accompany him. Its not unusual that a new parent be inexperienced and need some guidance when it comes to soothing a fussy baby.

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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: elliesmom]
      #761431 - 09/02/11 07:41 AM

"I am sorry, but if I had supervised time that would be cut short if I gave my baby a pacifier, even for no good reason, I would not do it. So my sympathy on that is limited."

But that is the POINT, and I can't believe I missed it before. Its not like the visitation center has a bucket of pacifiers in the middle of the room. It would have to be the BABIES pacifier...so why does a kid that isn't ALLOWED to use a pacifier, HAVE A PACIFIER?

And tell me that if you DO have limited time, and when you get the kid, he IMMEDIATELY starts SCREAMING. Nothing calms him down, he wants to EAT. So MOMMY gets to feed him, but Dad, well, Dad just gets to stand there and hold a screaming baby. That is a bunch of BULLSH!T plain and simple. What good is visitation and bonding time if the kid is SO terrified because he is NOT allowed his comfort item and spends the whole time screaming?

"And if he is showing up at her place of work and following her"

Just out of curiosity (and the more I read on this, the more I am thinking this is a TROLL), if she is "working", yet the child, per the original post, needs to eat almost CONSTANTLY...well, how does that work?

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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LexieBelle
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: Goodmom]
      #761433 - 09/02/11 08:33 AM

having trouble following along with this one :(

I can understand why no pacifier if you're trying to breastfeed. Also many just don't LIKE pacifiers. It's a bad habit to get into and one that can be extremely difficult to break.

I didn't breastfeed but am anti-pacifier. the nurses in the NICU would always be trying to force one on dd, she never took to them.. not then, not ever.

There ARE other ways to soothe a child beyond a pacifier. Just because they're crying doesn't mean it's a HUNGER cry. Give it a rattle, a stuffed animal, heck hold the child. Rock it.

Where'd the pacifier come from? Is HE bringing the pacifier? I missed the source of the pacifier.


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kkimberh
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: gr8Dad]
      #761435 - 09/02/11 08:55 AM

Gr8 - are you deliberately being dense today? Or is your comprehension off, or are you just not reading OP's posts???

OP has repeatedly said that the baby DOES NOT LIKE pacifiers. She said that when the dad gets there, he BRINGS A PACIFIER WITH HIM and he immediately puts it in the baby's mouth. He HOLDS IT THERE, even when the baby is angry because there is a pacifier in its mouth. He is FORCING the pacifier on the baby, which would only make the baby more stressed and upset. This could be seen as being detrimental to the supervisor and could be the reason the supervisor is ending the visits.

There are many alternative ways to calm a baby besides forcing a pacifier into its mouth, especially when it is known that the baby doesn't like the pacifier.

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Buckeye
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: kkimberh]
      #761437 - 09/02/11 09:35 AM

With DD, we were advised to use a pacifier with her because even as a newborn, she would take 4 oz's, burb twice in 20 minutes. The doctor and hospital said that she isn't getting enough "$ucking" time so use a pacifier.

We went though about every pacifier on the market and finally found BINKY brand - that was the one she liked.

At 6 months, she threw it out of the playpen and that was that. No more pacifier.


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LexieBelle
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: kkimberh]
      #761439 - 09/02/11 09:43 AM

I'll be honest, I've also missed the source of the pacifier. I read dad "picks up the pacifier from the table". HOW did it get on the table? Did dad bring it and put it on the table?

In Gr8's defense, for people who DO do pacifiers, I can't count the # of times have been out and about and there is mom or dad, PUSHING a pacifier against baby's mouth. Scene goes something like.. mom/dad put pacifier IN mouth.. lasts abvout 1.1 seconds, then baby pushes pacifier OUT. 9 times out of 10, it lands like on the floor (3 second rules!!) or some other inconvenient place. parent picks UP pacifier, puts back in mouth.. Repeat. Until, finally, mom/dad put pacifier in and HOLD it in... a scene that plays out every day, every minute, in restaurants and/or a mall near you ;) And, OFTEN, kid does NOT want the pacifier and that's why they're pushing it out but, mom/dad want the pacifier IN sooooo that's where it's gonna be :)

Pacifier usage or forcing thereof doesn't seem to be a critical path parenting issue does it? I mean, in and of itself. I could see it if you were bf'ing and the chlid was NOT latching/refusing to feed. You wouldn't want a pacifier being used and kid wanting that and NOT the boob. That isn't the case here, so giving the kid a pacifier isn't going to damage bf'ing at this point.

It DOES seem overly controlling/stupid.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: LexieBelle]
      #761455 - 09/02/11 12:26 PM

WHile I agree that there are other ways to sooth a baby that is crying, it appears that 99% of the time, when the child is with Mom, when he cries, he gets fed. So Mom has created the "cause/effect" in the child that suckling a breast is comforting when in a strange or different environment...then tells Dad, "Good luck, YOU can't do that..." And THAT is WRONG.

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RJ1
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761458 - 09/02/11 01:59 PM

This story reminds me of how stupid ex and I were at the beginning of our case. Constantly trying to hurt each other and jockey for position while not having our son as first priority. Luckily, after just a few months I came to my senses and stopped the bullsh!t. Meaning, I gave my ex a chance. I made it easy for him to bond. I kept my mouth shut. I left the courts out of it. And most importantly, I put myself in my ex's shoes. How would it feel to not be around this precious little baby 24/7? How would it feel for ex to not enjoy this daily? How would it feel to not have any control and have someone trying to take away the little bit of control I have? Your daughter needs to pump a bottle and give it to her ex. Make it easy for the baby and him. It will not hurt the child in this short timeframe away from the boob in the least and it will not take away from the breast feeding whatsoever. And if the baby doesn't like it at first, it will adjust. And in the long run, it's best for the baby to have two caring parents and to have two parents who try to get along. Look at the big picture...you have a long way to go. And during the next 18 years, get to know three little words...LET IT GO.

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Goodmom
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: gr8Dad]
      #761473 - 09/02/11 03:14 PM

[quote]WHile I agree that there are other ways to sooth a baby that is crying, it appears that 99% of the time, when the child is with Mom, when he cries, he gets fed. So Mom has created the "cause/effect" in the child that suckling a breast is comforting when in a strange or different environment...then tells Dad, "Good luck, YOU can't do that..." And THAT is WRONG. [/quote]

Babies nurse for reasons other than hunger. And how much they get is determined by the strength of their suck. And there is nothing wrong with that. Just like with bottles, pacifiers, daipers, and thumbsucking, they will outgrow it.

The father will have to learn his own way, without forcing something on the baby that the baby is clearly rejecting. And that is something that parenting classes could help with for parents who don't have much experience with infants. However; if this is a newborn, well, all they do is eat, sleep and poop so it's not surprising that he is having a hard time. It's a shame that he and the mother can't get along. It would be easier on the baby to have the visits in a familiar place and with the food source nearby.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: Goodmom]
      #761476 - 09/02/11 03:30 PM

"Babies nurse for reasons other than hunger."

That is what I SAID. Sucking is a COMFORT, and she is DENYING Dad that ability.

"And how much they get is determined by the strength of their suck. And there is nothing wrong with that. Just like with bottles, pacifiers, daipers, and thumbsucking, they will outgrow it."

So if there is nothing wrong with it, why can't DAD do it?

"The father will have to learn his own way, without forcing something on the baby that the baby is clearly rejecting."

Are you sure you actually HAVE kids? Babies do NOT "reject" stuff, they are reluctant to try new things. The pacifier is something the baby is not used to, because Mom DOESN'T HAVE TO USE IT< SHE HAS TITS!

"all they do is eat, sleep and poop so it's not surprising that he is having a hard time"

He is having a hard time because Mommy is DENYING him the SAME thing SHE uses to comfort the baby, something to suck on.

"It would be easier on the baby to have the visits in a familiar place and with the food source nearby."

It would be easier on the baby if he had the SAME rights as SHE does, a SAY in how their CHILD is being raised.

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Goodmom
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: gr8Dad]
      #761494 - 09/02/11 06:15 PM

You said:

That is what I SAID. Sucking is a COMFORT, and she is DENYING Dad that ability.

My response:

No, she is NOT. As you agreed, there are OTHER ways to comfort a baby.

You said:

So if there is nothing wrong with it, why can't DAD do it?

My response:

I am going to say this slowly: B e c a u s e t h e b a b y i s r e j e c t i n g t h e p a c i f i e r.

The father NEEDS to find OTHER ways to comfort the baby.

You said:

Are you sure you actually HAVE kids? Babies do NOT "reject" stuff, they are reluctant to try new things.

My response:

Oh my, what an ignorant, ignorant statement. I really can't say that enough.

And just goes to show that you clearly don't know much about infants. I have as of yet, in my TEN YEARS (and so that we are clear, this is in addition to my kids. Over all, I have been taking care of young kids for the past 20 years)as a nanny to very young children, including infants and having had two kids myself, to meet a baby who hasn't flat out rejected something. For the first family I was with, the youngest flat out refused the bottle. And this was before the mother even attempted to bf as she was not planning on breastfeeding at all.

I have seen on two occasions, including my youngest, infants reject pacifiers. No matter how hard the parent tried.

Just because they are a baby doesn't mean that they aren't capable of flatout rejecting something. BAER.

You said:

The pacifier is something the baby is not used to,

My response:

And clearly does NOT want to get used to. The baby has rejected the pacifier. It's time for the father to do what other parents do when one method of comfort is flat out refused. Try something else.

You said:

because Mom DOESN'T HAVE TO USE IT< SHE HAS TITS!

My response:

Care to explain why every father that I know, and given that I used to help mothers with breastfeeding issues I have met a lot, managed to find other ways to comfort their babies without the use of a pacifier or lactating breasts?

You said:

He is having a hard time because Mommy is DENYING him the SAME thing SHE uses to comfort the baby, something to suck on.

My response:

The BABY is denying that to him. Which is WHY the supervisor is ending the visits. Because the father is doing something that is very upsetting to the baby. The father needs to find another way to comfort the baby.

You said:

It would be easier on the baby if he had the SAME rights as SHE does, a SAY in how their CHILD is being raised.

My response:

To put it bluntly, he doesn't have lactating breasts. And since EVERY major medical organization out there recommends breastfeeding over formula in the first year of life, he's just going to have to deal with his human baby getting the food that nature intended, human milk. And a court will not side with the father when it comes to breastfeeding. I know of at least one case in NY where the father was throwing away the expressed breastmilk because he didn't want his baby to have it. The court ordered him to give it to the baby.

And as the OP has pointed out, the mother IS PROVIDING the baby with expressed breastmilk DURING the visit. There are other ways to feed a baby besides a bottle. When my two kids were nursing babies, we used sippy cups instead of bottles as they refused the bottle once breastfeeding was firmly established. Some babies just refuse to go back and forth. I was a nanny to such an infant. He flat out refused the bottle. Period. Even when the mother was at work. I found a way to work around it. Just like my ex found a way to work around my not being there when my kids were nursing babies when I went out without the kids. Just like I found a way around it when I watched my cousin's nursing babies (who also rejected the pacifier and bottle) when she and her husband went out. BTW, her husband also found a way to comfort their kids when they were nursing babies.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: Goodmom]
      #761501 - 09/02/11 07:04 PM

I went and used the f word, I am sorry, lost my cool, I withdraw from the conversation.

--------------------
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

Edited by gr8Dad (09/02/11 08:55 PM)


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BeckaLeigh
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: gr8Dad]
      #761513 - 09/03/11 10:55 AM

So, no parent here that used a binky with their kids has ever held it in the mouth of an upset child until they adjusted to it and started sucking?

As for Dad finding his own ways of comforting the baby, how is he supposed to do that when he apparently has a whole control=freak family telling him when and how to parent? He can't make any decisions for his own child. And the worst accusation against him concerning the child is the pacifier? I hope he does sue the crap out of the supervisor.

--------------------
I tried being normal once. Worst five minutes of my life.


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Debi
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: gr8Dad]
      #761515 - 09/03/11 12:17 PM

Here's another question I didn't see asked.....If mom is providing millk before DURING and after the visit but dad is not allowed to give the baby a bottle that must mean that mom is there during the visit, no? That should absolutely NOT be allowed.

No one should discount a baby's senses. Even if she can't "see" mom she can more than likely smell her and or hear her voice and that is going to set her up for agitation. Not to mention both parents are probably aggrevated to begin with which will stress baby out. When that happens she is naturally going to want mom, her primary caregiver and source of food. Dad doesn't stand a chance.

Only hearing one side it's hard to determine if dad is really this big of an ass or if the story is being padded, but being around as long as I have I have to go with the second. Let's bring up the pacifier issue again....How is mom demanding that the supervisor stop the visit if dad gives the child a pacifier unless she is there. The supervisor should be neutral (especially in this case) and I can only think that it sounds like mom is there yelling at her to stop the visit. Sounds like she's in a difficult situation.

To the OP.....I've guessing that the paternity test is going to show that he is the father. He is showing up at the visits and he is going to get unsupervised parenting time. Your daughters attorney is correct. There is nothing he can do. This man has the least amount of time with the child as possible. It's not going to be stopped completely simply because he is not following mom's instructions. Once the child is with him for extended periods there will be many difference in parenting style issues and the courts don't care. A pacifier is not detrimental to a baby. It may not be the prefered method of comfort by some but it's not going to harm her.

--------------------
When we were together, you said you'd die for me. Now, I think it's time you kept your promise.


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caroljean
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: Goodmom]
      #761526 - 09/03/11 06:51 PM

Seems like many are mis understanding the point. first off, it is not my daughter who does not want the baby to have a pacifier, the baby WILL NOT TAKE ONE, SHE REFUSES, why continue to force one on the child if she will refuses it.

the father LIES. how would you react if someone accused you of threatening to kill another with a gun you dont even have. you really do need to listen to this guy and trust me you might just believe his stories, I did at first until I started putting the pieces together.

in the beginning, my daughter was willinng to allow the father time with the baby. but with his behavoir, she has changed her mind.


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caroljean
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761527 - 09/03/11 06:53 PM

Here's another question I didn't see asked.....If mom is providing millk before DURING and after the visit but dad is not allowed to give the baby a bottle that must mean that mom is there during the visit, no? That should absolutely NOT be allowed.

Mom in near by, not part of the visits.


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caroljean
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761528 - 09/03/11 07:07 PM

As for Dad finding his own ways of comforting the baby, how is he supposed to do that when he apparently has a whole control=freak family telling him when and how to parent? He can't make any decisions for his own child. And the worst accusation against him concerning the child is the pacifier? I hope he does sue the crap out of the supervisor.

I have never been involved in / with the visits. my daughter takes the baby to the location, stays near by in case the baby is in need, she is not seen by the baby during the visit. during the visits it just the father and the supervisor.
and yes, if the superisor see's the father giving the baby a pacifier, he is asked not to, if he continues to force the pacifier on the baby, the supervisor ends the visits.

the father does have a lawyer.
but as I have said before...he is good with lies.


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caroljean
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: gr8Dad]
      #761529 - 09/03/11 07:10 PM

"So, now the question is: Why is there a pacifier in the room? The solution would be to have it removed from the room before he does that."

You know, that is an interesting thought, I really hadn't considered it. A pacifier is a fairly personal item. Since it goes in the child's mouth, you would not want someone ELSE'S pacifier.

So if the child is NOT to have a bottle or a pacifier...WHY THE HELL DOES THE CHILD EVEN OWN A PACIFIER?


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elliesmom
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761530 - 09/03/11 07:11 PM

The thing is - his visits aren't going to be more limited than they are unless he is hurting the baby. Trying to force a baby to take a pacifier is not abuse - I hope. None of my 3 ever did, but boy did I try! Sometimes its not convenient to whip out your breasts - cross country train trip with infant twins - and you are desperate to avoid disturbing others. I still don't understand why the supervisor is cutting off the visits - if it is truly over the pacifier - I can see him winning this one. I mean *I* had every right to try and force my kids to take one - so does he. Its not something most kids take to right away, it takes a while. I don't get the big deal - baby will either take it or it won't - as long as he isn't duct taping the thing to the kids face (which I admit to fantasizing about, LOL), why bother interfering?

Personally I would focus on the other issues - stalking, threats, etc. And maybe ask that he be accompanied by someone he trusts who has experience with babies on the visits to help him get more comfortable - so the baby will at least not be miserable. Because it doesn't sound like he is going away, or doing anything actionable by your daughter.

--------------------
Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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caroljean
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761531 - 09/03/11 07:13 PM

"So, now the question is: Why is there a pacifier in the room? The solution would be to have it removed from the room before he does that."

You know, that is an interesting thought, I really hadn't considered it. A pacifier is a fairly personal item. Since it goes in the child's mouth, you would not want someone ELSE'S pacifier.

So if the child is NOT to have a bottle or a pacifier...WHY THE HELL DOES THE CHILD EVEN OWN A PACIFIER?

the father brings the pacifier to each visit.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761532 - 09/03/11 07:14 PM

Okay, do you understand that the child will eventually NEED to have a bottle eventually, because Dad WILL get extended visits. The baby will HAVE to drink expressed milk from a bottle. May not be his favorite, but he will adjust. And in learning to adjust, he will learn to be adaptable, and thus more successful.

--------------------
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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caroljean
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: gr8Dad]
      #761533 - 09/03/11 07:17 PM

the mom has been on leave. the stalking was while she was still working. and since she has been off work, he continues going to her work and threatening her co-workers.

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Debi
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761535 - 09/03/11 08:25 PM

Okay, she is on leave. How will the baby eat when she goes back to work? I'm assuming she will express milk and someone will feed the baby with........are you ready????? a bottle. I'm thinking that day is coming fairly soon as the baby is now 3 months old and I've never heard of FMLA leave lasting longer than that. (maybe a few weeks longer with extra vacation time).

Look, I am not anti-breast feeding. I expressed milk for daycare and when I couldn't express enough to last her through the day I supplemented formula. She had no issue with nursing or the bottle. She definitely prefered breast milk but took formula when she "had" to.

Dad may be a liar but the fact is he is a liar who is showing up for the visits and showing an interst in his child and he IS going to get extended visits. Not too many judges these days forbid overnights because of breast feeding.

Personally I hope your daughter learned a lesson about the types of people she wants to be involved with, much less have a child with. once you pick a parent it's too late to say you don't want the person around the child.

--------------------
When we were together, you said you'd die for me. Now, I think it's time you kept your promise.


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Goodmom
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761538 - 09/03/11 09:26 PM

[quote]in the beginning, my daughter was willinng to allow the father time with the baby. but with his behavoir, she has changed her mind. [/quote]

Unless your daughter can prove that he is a danger, the threats are a he said she said scenario unless he is leaving it on voicemail or e-mail (if this is the case, your daughter needs to get to the courthouse for a restraining order), she can change her mind all she wants. The court will order parenting time.

Has your daughter tried pumping breastmilk (ebm) that the father can give to the baby? If not, and the reason is because the baby won't take a bottle, then she should provide ebm and provide a sippy cup that drips so that he can give that to the baby. The baby is 4-5 months old, certainly old enough to be distracted with a familiar toy or a sippy cup filled with ebm.


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Goodmom
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: Debi]
      #761540 - 09/03/11 09:29 PM

[quote]Okay, she is on leave. How will the baby eat when she goes back to work? I'm assuming she will express milk and someone will feed the baby with........are you ready????? a bottle. [/quote]

Or a sippy cup. Like I did when I was a nanny and like my kids did when they were babies and I was gone for more than 2 hours.

Bottles really aren't a necessity unless one is not breastfeeding. Even when the mom isn't there.


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BeckaLeigh
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761552 - 09/04/11 09:26 AM

There's no reasoning with you. The worst thing this man has done in regards to his child is to try to make the child take a binky. As parents, we all make our kids do things they don't want to at first. He should have the right to make (harmless) mistakes the same as your daughter does. The harassment and accusation BS has nothing to do with the baby and his parenting unless he is threatening the baby, which it is pretty safe to assume isn't happening since you have mentioned everything else he has done wrong and this has not been mentioned.

--------------------
I tried being normal once. Worst five minutes of my life.


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elliesmom
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: Goodmom]
      #761553 - 09/04/11 09:29 AM

Bottom line - what is your long term goal?

Unless he is a threat to the child's safety - he WILL end up with at least every other weekend - probably no later than 1 yr old. So what does your daughter want to see happen in the interim given that is almost a given outcome? I would hope she doesn't want him to be a stranger - imagine how scary that would be.

Personally - I would try to get the supervisor to find an alternative to ending the visit after only a few minutes. No one is helped by him not learning to know (and vice versa) and care for his child. Perhaps ask that he be required to complete some child care class.

If the stalking doesn't calm down - then I would also ask that he have a psych eval done.

While I do think you and your daughter have exascerbated this situation (his personality problem) by turning a pacifier in a freakin legal issue, things will probably improve once he gets some of the control back. Its a scary thing to have your newborn ripped from you and having absolutely no time to bond, think if that had happened to your daughter? Well it happened to him. So he is not on his best behavior. Based on some of his past behavior - I would want the psych eval for peace of mind.

--------------------
Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.


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DedicatedDad
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: elliesmom]
      #761554 - 09/04/11 12:25 PM

I think he's setting them up myself, and perhaps by the direction of an attorney.

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Debi
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: Goodmom]
      #761558 - 09/04/11 03:32 PM

Or a sippy cup. Like I did when I was a nanny and like my kids did when they were babies and I was gone for more than 2 hours.

Whatever.....my point is that it will not come directly from mom. Use a sippy cup or a bottle or an eye dropper. She is still not going to be nursing the child while she is at work. Dad can use that same artificial method.

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When we were together, you said you'd die for me. Now, I think it's time you kept your promise.


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Avaya
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Re: Problems with EX [Re: caroljean]
      #761621 - 09/06/11 02:43 PM

[quote]There are other ways to comfort a baby other then giving a pacifier. My grand daughter has always refused a pacifier. If the baby does not like them, why force one on her? [/quote]

Why does mom have to 'refuse' the paci if the baby doesn't like one? Does dad bring a paci with him? If the baby doesn't like it, mom should just zip it and let dad figure that out on his own. She is his child too and he has the right to make even the most mundane (paci) decisions for his child.

--------------------
Eternity is too long to be wrong.


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