relocatingmom
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My current husband received a job out of state and I am having trouble coming up with a visitation agreement for my daughter's father. She is 8 and he only sees her 50-60 days a year (every other weekend plus a few holidays). We have mediation coming up and I don't know what time sharing would be a realistic acceptable plan. My daughter does not want to spend all summer with him. Also, he returned her from a weekend visit recently intoxicated so we have a temporary order removing the current PP and temporary sole custody until the hearing on this.
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youngatheart
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I wouldn't suggest moving away in that situation. You're basically setting it up so that you have to send your child unsupervised with a drunk. As opposed to being nearby, and being able to have shorter visitations where he never ever ever drives her.
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LexieBelle
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How far are you moving?
Typically moves over 100 miles would be one weekend a month, still alternating holidays and school breaks and a substantial period during the summer (uninterrupted).
For me, I'd really need to know the distance you're talking to give an opinion on what's "reasonable". I have a 200 mile by car/100 mile by ferry distance. We do twice a month and my daughter is going on 6 and just started school. I can tell you that my preference would be go to once a month as the travel is tiring and it does wear on the child. Speaking for my own child, at once a month, that seems to be the "sweet spot" so to speak in terms of not missing the other parent too much versus not creating a ton of issues from travel/visiting. In our case, we don't do extended periods... just doesn't work, at least not so far, with our daughter. Between the fact she comes back extremely sick with each extended visit, AND the fact she comes back with major behavioral issues.. my ex and I have agreed it's not in her best interests to do.
Whatever you do, make sure it's not about "you". Like, for me? I'll do anything. I was a road warrior for years and I can travel as easily as I breathe. What DOES matter is what's best for our daughter and I keep dad fully informed of how things are going, what issues are being experienced, and yup, if that means a phone call to dad in the middle of an issue, that's what it means. So again, don't make it about what you are comfortable with or not.. not that you would, just mentioning it.
Also, you will find here MOST people are adamantly opposed to move-aways.. and they'll get pretty nasty/bytchy about it. Just ignore it. I moved about a year and a half ago. The quality of life my child experiences is VASTLY greater than where we were. And she still has a relationship with her father and half-sister. It DOES matter how you handle it though, so make sure you make it as clean/unstressful as possible.
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Sherron
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"We have mediation coming up and I don't know what time sharing would be a realistic acceptable plan. My daughter does not want to spend all summer with him."
Does she want to move with you guys or would she prefer to stay behind with dad or a friend so she can attend school with her friends back home?
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ssmom79
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My husband would be hurt immensely if his kids were moved away far enough to affect the parenting plan. I am thankful BM stayed behind while her husband moved to another state to continue his education (three years). I'm sure she could have fought tooth and nail to take them along but she didn't. Said right up front, no way would this affect anything with the kids. Dang sometimes she is a freaking nice gal.
Like LB mentioned, how far is pretty important to determine a good plan. Parenting plans are like house plans, they can be cookie order or custom built. You'd be surprised what people will add or will refuse to add.
Does your ex know anything about the move?
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Avaya
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[quote]I wouldn't suggest moving away in that situation. You're basically setting it up so that you have to send your child unsupervised with a drunk. As opposed to being nearby, and being able to have shorter visitations where he never ever ever drives her. [/quote]
I completely agree!
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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M5M5
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I think your situation is far from "the norm". Just because you got to move away, doesn't mean most ppl would be able to move their children.
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relocatingmom
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We are moving 725 miles away. Its at least a 12 hr drive. The thing is her dad has been one that doesn't want to be involved much until now. He never had any interest in school, activities, etc. until we notified him about the move. He is very much about "I" but the decisions I am making are about what is in her best interest. And she has clearly let me know what she wants, so I am trying to take that into consideration too. Hopefully we can agree at mediation but he has an attorney who only believes in 50/50 custody so they think moving her back and forth each year is best.
Thanks for the info. I know my case is not unique so I am looking for someone who maybe had the same issue as me.
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relocatingmom
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Yes she wants to move with us and only wants to spend holidays and up to 10 days at a time in the summer. Her dad thinks otherwise but he is not thinking about her - only himself.
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gr8Dad
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"Her dad thinks otherwise but he is not thinking about her - only himself."
First of all, ti is easy to say that he is only thinking of himself when YOU have full custody, and will get the lion's share of time with the child.
Second, tell us, if she wants to sleep with a boy in your home, and you say NO, are you only thinking of yourself, or are you realizing that she is not really old enough to make such decisions by herself?
Also, if she decided she wanted to stay with Dad full time when you move, would you agree?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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LexieBelle
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I strongly disagree, at least in the northeast. I don't think moves are that difficult to get, particularly in THIS day and age. First, the economy and the severely depressed job markets and second, the vast technological capability to stay in touch.
I know from the stats my lawyer gave that the court I dealt with and the county next door, a vast majority of judges will nearly ALWAYS grant a move. I can't begin to count the number of people I know of know of, from THIS state, who have either been allowed to move into to it, or OUT of it, with a court not batting an eyelash. You're in a MUCH different geographic area M5 and things are MUCH different.
I have found, at least in this area (meaning NY and north) that I'm NOT even REMOTELY unusual and that, in fact, MANY parents have a long distance thing going on. VERY FIRST ferry ride we took? Who'd we meet? Kid and mom who have been doing this since the kid was one year old. It's just NOT the rarity you seem to believe it is.
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LexieBelle
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No offense but having BEEN in her shoes? I know EXACTLY what she's talking about :( Generally disinterested dad who SUDDENLY portrays himself as father of the year when a move comes up. BTDT. But, as the OP here is saying there's no talking about what's best for the CHILD, it's "me, me, me". "I'll lose time", "I won't get this". I have NO doubt what she's saying is true cuz I've lived it. In my ex's filing to block my move there was not ONE WORD about my daughter's best interest. NOT ONE. HIM, his OTHER daughter, the GRANDPARENTS but NOTHING about our daughter. Zilch. It was portrayed that I was TAKING AWAY something by moving but, as in this case? The REALITY was? It was something he never HAD. In my ex's case his argument was I was "taking away" overnights. He didn't TAKE any in THREE YEARS prior to the move.
And I will bet dollars to donuts what will happen in THIS case.. just what happened in mine. "Mediate" (which is what we basically did since it never went to trial) a "liberal" schedule. My lawyer said to me as we were riding the elevator downstairs the day we elocuted to the agreement "You DO realize, he's NEVER going to take anything remotely close to what he got?" and I said "oh, I think at least for the first year, he will".. and she said "Nope.. watch..." and sure as shyt, he had to request his summer time 2 weeks later. And he didn't take it all. And hasn't since. His 3 weeks summer vacation this year? Consisted of a NORMAL weekend, 'cept done up here rather than there. Out of 6 weeks in the last year+ he was supposed to have? Took 2. And won't be taking any more.. he's done with them. $9,000 and a complete waste of time.
The child? Has a fantastic life here. Totally different quality of life, good schools, safer, healthier, tons of friends and activities which, since I'm not commuting 3+ hours a day we can actually HAVE some kind of life. No brainer. Hell even my EX has said, many times, where we were was a PIT.. he said no one would live there if they didn't have to and HE isn't planning on staying, ultimately. But HAD to take me to court. It's just... amusing.
Anyway, if this guy isn't taking time now? He's already set himself up for failure. And attempting it at the 11th hour isn't going to win him a ton of favor either.
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Cassie23
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I actually think it is unusual to be granted a move unless you have sole custody- which was your case LB. I know of several cases where a move was not granted far south in NY- only pertaining to those with JOINT custody.
There was a story here that I followed for years- out of SC. Mother moved and the father went to court and the judge ORDERED the mother to move BACK (over 100 miles). She had to come back for the year it took to finish up the case. The judge did GRANT the move with the father receiving substantial time during breaks and summer. In this case the father did not have a normal visitation schedule for the first five years of the child's life and only wanted to have regular visitation once the mother decided to move.
It really could go either way, but it will (most likely) take time and money UNLESS both parents can come to an agreement.
To the OP--- I would seriously consider giving your X as much time as possible, if you believe your child would not benefit from long periods with her father then you should consider not moving. Children need both their parents and you all (both parents and the child) will have to get used to the idea that there will be extended amounts of time without the child.
Also, be prepared to pay all transportation costs since you are the one moving.
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Cassie23
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Your situation is different though LB- as you have stated countless times in the past this was your X's XW's fight NOT his. Unless there is a person behind this OP's X motivating him to stop the move- how could it be similar to your case?
And no offense to this OP, but I have seen firsthand a BM state that a parent doesn't want this, doesn't do this, doesn't pay CS, etc. etc, for sympathy--- so that they can find reason behind what they are doing. BM did it. BM went onto tell numerous lies about H and the "CS that he didn't pay", the "daughter he abandoned"...etc. Where is that child now? In the care of her father, as her mother refuses to have anything to do with her.
Edited- it's easy to say I think THIS is a possibility since it happened to me, but the opposite has surely happened to someone else.
Edited by Cassie23 (09/13/11 10:14 PM)
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finz
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RM,
I am against move aways in most cases. but especially so if you have reason to be concerned for her safety when she is in her dad's care.
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gr8Dad
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Yes, and my ex makes Britney Spears look like June Cleaver, but we are in the minority.
I do find it interesting that the entire time they are "non parents", we lament that they aren't better parents. Then when they do something correct, we begin to look for ulterior motives. Sometime we are correct, but if they spent time with the kids, and paid some of the bills, good on them, and lets hope this is the time you pull up and out.
One thing I have always given my ex credit for the times she pulls through, and the times she does something nice (I am not overburdened with my accounting of such events, LOL) and HOPED it was the start of a better path. Of course I am usually treated to a half hour long diatribe of her family, who are a myriad of interesting people.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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M5M5
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I wasn't really just talking about my location (southeast), but for the 10 years I've been on this site...you can't imagine how many times this subject comes up and in most cases I think...the move-away is denied especially if there is an interested parent trying to stop the move (most of the time, it is a battle, not something "agreed"). Personally, I've never dealt with a move-away.
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DedicatedDad
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It varies greatly from state to state. In mine (not the same as the OP), in state moves are often granted, but out of state are very difficult.
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LexieBelle
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That's a very good point. And I keep saying, geography (I think) has a LOT to do with it! On Long Island, let's say you're halfway out to the Hamptons.. look for a hotel and put in a 25 mile radius. Guess what? You're going to get hotels in CONNECTICUT because, in reality, over water? 25 miles will get you out of state. This state, the entire state is only 40 miles long! With my current 25 mile "restriction"? I CAN MOVE to TWO other states other than THIS state. It's just not that big a deal. And I think the courts figure once you're out of state....
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LexieBelle
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[quote]Yes, and my ex makes Britney Spears look like June Cleaver, but we are in the minority.
------------>> Really? The minority? Must be me but I know very few GOOD exes. Like in dd's childcare, probably 50% of kids are from divorced homes. Maybe 10% of those have "good" divorce situations? Typically dad isn't around, pulling teeth to get child support yadda yadda. I have one of the BETTER situations, if that's an indication lol.
I do find it interesting that the entire time they are "non parents", we lament that they aren't better parents. Then when they do something correct, we begin to look for ulterior motives. Sometime we are correct, but if they spent time with the kids, and paid some of the bills, good on them, and lets hope this is the time you pull up and out.
One thing I have always given my ex credit for the times she pulls through, and the times she does something nice (I am not overburdened with my accounting of such events, LOL) and HOPED it was the start of a better path.[/quote]
------------>> Yes, I've done that... and been burned.. many times in the last almost 5 years. I accept (now) who my ex is and recognize it's not a function of malice it's simply limited in capability. He means well.. he just lacks the ability to follow through. It's fine. Like tonight, he's coming up for open house. Good for him, good for dd, but I am a realist. I didn't tell her it was an absolute. I also told her NOT to expect it to be a regular thing. It's great, it's wonderful but it's a special thing. Some might not agree, but it helps her immensely and she deals with everything very very well. It was funny to hear her tell her friends last night "and my dad MAY be coming... he says he is, but if he can't, that's OKAY so no one get upset if you don't get to meet him, okay?" My 30 year old trapped in a 5 year old body lol. It'll be a good thing. And I'm glad he's doing it. My only issue isn't really an "issue".. more a concern. I just need to do damage/fall out control which is done and handled. (another issue we have is dd is VERY into the idea that dad and I will reconcile.. this visit may not help with diminishing that idea so that's part of "damage control").. probably doesn't help that we are NOT a fighting divorced couple. We get along very well, we talk like old friends and we've both told her we ARE friends.. lifelong best friends. So it's hard to reconcile that with "why aren't you together??" I'm sure.
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ssmom79
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What she wants happens to be in line with what you want. It's easier to support a decision you want. Imagine if she said she didn't want to move and only wanted to spend 10 days with you? How much consideration would that receive?
I would offer alternating holidays, long weekends, spring break, and summer vacation to get him maximum time.
Now I saw you mentioned being drunk and the change in custody until a hearing. I did not give any consideration of that. I'm not sure how that will fare in your quest to move. I can't imagine they'd say, OK drunky the bear, since you did that she can move, but it will probably have some affect on your case. When is that mediation?
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RJ1
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he only sees her 50-60 days a year (every other weekend plus a few holidays)
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Sounds like a normal parenting plan for most NCPs to me. What would suck is if he never saw her at all. Is he an alcoholic with DUIs and neglect of his daughter on his record? If not, it will probably not matter. I don't like moveaways. Because in the future, if the sucky NCP ever wants to get better and start getting more time with their child, the distance makes it almost impossible to have a normal close relationship with the child. And I can only speak for my son, but he would HATE all the traveling back and forth. You need to look at your state standard for move aways. Research what you'll need to do to prove to the court the move is in her best interests, while maintaining the parenting time with Dad or even upping it a bit. In my experience in my case, even a sucky NCP is better than no NCP at all to my son.
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annieo
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I agree - a sucky ncp is better then no ncp - at least the child will have that parent however not living up to your standards (general you) the ncp may be - if they try and maintain visits I am against move-aways
If I were ever in a situation where I divorced my childs father - it would be really tempting to me to move closer to my parents and to be able to obtain better employment where they live BUT I wouldn't do that to my son - my husbands parents live here so he would also be moving away from them and his uncle as well - I have so much family where my parents are and they are not getting any younger but it would be unfair to my son to do what would be easier for me and if I were to meet someone new he would have to understand until my son was out of the house and in college there would be no move-away for me - my son would come first and foremost before my wants and desires.
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elliesmom
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I really don't understand the decision making here.
First - trying to move a kid 12 hours away will be hard. He has visitation and uses it. In the end IF you are allowed to move her expect those 50-60 days to be in the summer. 8 year olds don't get a vote. I would also expect to have to cover all costs of transportation for the visits.
I am not sure how you will prove he was intoxicated. Assuming he was - how on earth can you consider putting your daughter in that position - being 12 hours away and putting her on a plane to spend extended periods of time there?
My DH is in the military. We lived apart for a year once because it was in the best interest of his son that he not be carted to 3 highschools in one year (sophomore). You do what you have to (sometimes be the only parent to a snotty SK teenager for a year), to make sure the kids get taken care of.
You have no idea how this job offer will turn out. I would let him go, get a studio apartment, and see where things go with your D's father or your local job market for at least a year before I went through this nonsense.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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LexieBelle
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Granted this move is a bit far BUT, a distant NCP doesn't mean "no" NCP. And extended family.. well, no guarantee how long they'll be around is there?
For me, and people I know who have done it, the moves WERE done with the CHILD'S best interest in mind AND the child fared WELL, even given a distance from the other parent.
NOR does a move-away have to result in some vast amount of lost parenting time. My ex maintains pretty much a NORMAL, REGULAR divorced schedule. Nor does it have to mean missing things. Mine was just here tonight.. open house. Give the guy HUGE props.. 7 hours travel today.. for 3 hours here. If he hadn't come? My child would have lived. He did and it was an added bonus and she's happy.
I just personally resent the idea that a distant NCP is "No NCP". Simply doesn't have to be, and likely ISN'T, the case.
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gr8Dad
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I think the reason that that is an assumption in this case is that the CP is stating that she doesn't WANT the NCP to have extended parenting time.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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annieo
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Loc: Pacific Northwest
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"Mine was just here tonight.. open house. Give the guy HUGE props.."
So cool for him and your dd that he took part =)
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SweetLight
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Reged: 01/07/10
Posts: 2016
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I guess normal is relative, based upon status quo. Every situation is unique, but I don’t think your situation resembles the OP’s much at all. Props to your ExH.
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LexieBelle
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Yes it was cool for ALL of us. Myself included. Whatever the/our issues, we do BOTH love our daughter. And he does what he can do. DD wanted him here for this particular thing, he wanted to see the school, her teacher, etc. For my part, he's ALWAYS been welcome. I've offered my home, and I'll go elsewhere.. whatever it takes. If it means giving a date 15 times.. giving directions 10, that's what I'll do ;)
My ex and I don't hate each other. I'm sure I annoy him with how specific/organized I am.. just like he annoys me with how non-specific/disorganized he is. he got a a good chuckle out of the teacher saying if kid is sick just send note saying "kid was sick... "... he was already pointing at me at that point.. when she added "I've literally gotten 4 page letters on kid being out", he had a tough time not laughing at loud as he's poking me in the shoulder, tears in his eyes he thinks it's so funny (and so true!).
And I give him credit that HE recognizes that dd's life her is FAR more LIFE than it was where we were. HE doesn't want to stay there and the day his other child is done with him? He's OUTTA THERE. Said it again tonight.. he's going back to Cali, Cali, Cali... that's where HE wants to be, and the minute he can? He's gone. He knows I did what I needed to do.. forget exSO, he merely sped up the inevitable.. I couldn't financially survive there forever. My parents are older parents, and one of them has been disabled for 40+ years.. and it's catching up to her. My father, the "healthy" one, in the past 5 years alone has had 2 hips replaced, survived prostate cancer and is having triple bypass next week. THAT is the reason the move permission was put in there to BEGIN with.
I will also say ex is VERY well aware I am currently single because I wouldn't allow him to be "exed" out. ExSO and battled regularly, the last 4 months or so, about ex. I wasn't going to allow him to run him out of Dodge. And contrary to what ex may have believed when we did the whole court thing, I was NEVER going to let that happen. Period. And I held true to my word.
He's NOT a bad guy. I will (and have done so) say it to anyone. Reality? We still care a great deal for each other, no question but most importantly we both want the best for our daughter. And further reality? I don't think "he" necessarily was THAT opposed to the move to begin with. I have no doubt that the majority of that situation was FIRST wife and needing to handle THAT situation. he gave ME something he did NOT give her (for a reason, HER move would be across the country, not 100 miles away) and once SHE knew that? He was ROYALLY screwed. And his "punishment"? He's paying twice as much as he was AND she DID move. Not across the country, but down the street from baby daddy, in one of THE worst neighborhoods you can find on LI and the house in the fabulous school district that ex worked so hard on? A money maker for her while she lives rent free. Taking me to court? Mostly show.
I realize my situation isn't everyone's, I just think it unfair to generalize that ALL moves are horrors that children will just never recover from. Simply not true. And I think that's the case in far more situations than people realize. I'm just one example but there are many.
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SweetLight
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"I just think it unfair to generalize that ALL moves are horrors that children will just never recover from."
----->Who said that? You are portraying your situation as a benchmark and ideal. Your child is unsure if her Dad will show up for her, to the extent she's warning her friends for their let down, and she thinks you may still get back together with your Ex. That must be rough on her, even if it appears she's a 30-yr old trapped in a 5-yr old's body. Maybe she's more progressed in some ways than others.
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M5M5
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I guess what bugs me is you seem to think that all NCP (dads) are like your ex. My DH would fit tooth and nail for his kids, and has. Your ex is a bad father. No ifs ands or buts...per you. There is NO excuse for that. And not everyone is like him. I don't think many kids would be jumping for joy to move away from the parent (unless there is abuse). I hate to say it, but in this case, I agree with SL.
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LexieBelle
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She's smart enough to know there IS a distance. She is also aware her dad works TWO jobs, basically two FULL time jobs.
Yes, she'd prefer us together. What's difficult for her is that it's hard to reconcile the fact that my ex and I get along like friends. People who get along, are together. Even at our worst, SHE never really "saw" it. She might have felt a vibe but we NEVER fight in front of her.. EVER. In her mind, we loved each other then, she's SEEN our wedding pictures. We look the same together now, in terms of happy faces, laughing etc. OBVIOUSLY it can never be explained to her the REAL reason we are divorced so in her mind, it'll always be a question. Plus, she's a control freak who wants things her way ;)
Don't dramatize it into something it's not. Is it "ideal"? Not necessarily but it's damn better than it was. And why isn't it okay for me to present my experience and knowledge and share it as MINE and it's just dandy for 'x' number of people to speak in absolutes!?
As for SL.. she's not a stepparent, she's not a PARENT, she's not even remotely qualified or experienced to have an opinion. Period. Why she's here boggles my mind quite frankly. As a single, childless person THE last place I'd be is on a divorce site. MUCH better things to do in life than hang out here and give advice about crap one known next to nothing about.
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LexieBelle
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I take some exception to the "bad parent" comment. My ex has ISSUES. He has limited bandwidth. And he has major emotional baggage from HIS parents' divorce (which is THE main driver of the deal with his first wife).
Is my ex a "bad parent"? No, otherwise I wouldn't have had a child with him in the first place since I SAW him be a parent.. extensively.
What I have said, repeatedly, is that he is not a person who can manage TWO ex wives and TWO children effectively. I've ALWAYS said that. I have also said he LOVES our daughter. However, she was not and is not an "easy" child. First child is.
What I have said is that he does do, in my mind, bad THINGS. I'm pretty sure most would agree that letting a child go over 24 hours without urinating isn't a particularly good thing. But that's him. He's not going to ask, which is what it takes.. and if he does, he's not going to do battle. That's where I come in and why the deal is what the deal is.
Again, for the record, he is NOT A BAD GUY (for the umpteenth time). He's a 40 year old child, in many respects and he prefers (and takes) the easy route. But he does love her.. and she loves him. She knows he has commitments and, frankly, I'm the one who sets expectations that there NOT be an expectation. Life is VASTLY better that way simply because of my daughter's personality.
The fact is he does what he can do and he's who I CHOSE to have a child with. And 100 miles isn't that far, it simply isn't. And in my case he sees her MORE.. with her HERE.. than he ever saw her THERE. Period. No ands if or buts about it, as you put it.
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ssmom79
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This board has more off topic threads than on topic. And we all know one need not experience everything personally to have knowledge or offer an opinion on a subject.
The OP is moving a lot farther than 100 miles. It's not a drive or a ferry ride away. Your situations are not similar aside from there was a move away involved. I don't think move aways are horrible on all children, but it would be horrible on mine. It would be devastating. So, while it was the best case in your situation *and I agree it was*, it is not always the best case.
Your ex is a giant tool. Some of the things you've mentioned he does would be labeled as bad parenting. Doesn't make him a bad parent. It's great this works for you but it is a lot of extra work for you, even if you have to change a date 15 times and give him directions ten times. Why would even need to be more than a 40 year old child? You will take care of everything. It's a lot more work than even I'd be willing and I do a lot to facilitate a relationship with SD and her mom. It's a good job. You get props for that.
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Sherron
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"As for SL.. she's not a stepparent, she's not a PARENT, she's not even remotely qualified or experienced to have an opinion. Period. Why she's here boggles my mind quite frankly. As a single, childless person THE last place I'd be is on a divorce site. MUCH better things to do in life than hang out here and give advice about crap one known next to nothing about. "
Like you said... it's a divorce site... SL is divorced. A childless person giving advice on visitation matters is no different than a preschool parent giving advice on teenagers... both can have validity, even if they are lacking the personal experience. And sometimes our own experience and knowledge can lead us to be biased towards others' situations, it's what we know, it's what worked for us... there are so many reasons others can have good advice, even if we're not aware of their personal experiences and knowledge... ad hominem is not warranted.
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LexieBelle
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blahblahblah sherron. I have two words for you.. "shut" and "up".
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LexieBelle
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It is what it is and this is who I chose to have a child with. And there's a LOT worse out there. What I do is administrative.. inconvenient but pretty small stuff and as the book says "don't sweat the small stuff" ;)
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Redlegg
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I did a 1583 mile move away, and I cannot tell you what is right for your situation. We had no formal visitation schedule, the child was older. You are asking on here, what should be acceptable for your ex as far as visitation. What does he think is reasonable, and who will bear the expense for this? It sounds like you feel that your child not seeing their father is just not a huge thing. It may not be, to you, to the child (who should have no say), or to anyone else throwing their hat in the ring, but what about him. He is flawed, he was intoxicated, not sure if the word alcoholic got thrown around, but I am sure somehere it has either come out, or probably will.
What is the goal here. If the goal is for you to move, then go that way, if it is for the child to have a decent relationship with your ex, then go that way. There are so many more things that come into play than just a better school, more friends, nicer house, etc.
At the end of the day, you have to figure out what is really best for the parents, and for the child, and what the balance is. Who loses on this one, and who loses the most, and who is making those choices...
I would wait until the determination is done. Then you know what you have to work with, and present him with as many options as possible that minimize the time he loses. This is about a child, and her parents, and having two parents in their lives......
It kind of sounds like the move is a done deal and the formality of a long distance PP is needed, since the old one was removed....
If he doesn't take time now, and does nto seem to be interested, why not just offer him a few weeks in the summer and be done with it, you can always give him more time if he asksm but it seems he won't, so no worries.
I think finding out what he wants is the key, finding out where you need to start from makes it a lot easier than trying to read his mind....
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ssmom79
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It's really not pretty small stuff that you do. But I'm glad you can smile and do it anyway.
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Sherron
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"blahblahblah sherron. I have two words for you.. "shut" and "up"."
Is this what you meant about people getting pretty nasty/bytchy, or did you mean other pretty nasty/bychy stuff?
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Cassie23
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12 hours away is a big move. Having been a SP where we have moved 8 hours away and then the second leg was closer, about 3.5 hours away- I can tell anyone that the 3.5 hour move was much easier on everyone.
With a 12 hour move the NCP will not have the ability to just jump in his vehicle and attend an Open House, a dance recital, soccer game or the child's first school dance on a whim. We could do/have done a 3.5 hour drive there and back on a Friday-Sunday if we wanted. Heck, I have done that drive from Sat morning to Sunday night on occasion.
The OP also has to take into consideration that her X now receives every other weekend 4 days a month amounting to 48 days a year BUT those are surely uninterrupted since they are weekend hours. Weekends usually consist of no school and no work. In a long distance parenting plan those make up days will have to include work for the X. Which means he is losing hours that he previously had when living in the same area.
WHAT if this 8 year old doesn't like to fly? What if has a bad experience on an airplane which makes her anxious/nervous to fly again?
I think a 700 plus mile relocation will be VERY difficult for all parties involved.
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LexieBelle
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Yes, 3.5 hours is easy.. done it ONE day... it's really not that big a deal. Presumably the child would fly.. presumably the parent knows the child CAN fly.
Anyway, life goes on... and people move on. That's reality. And again, the ULTIMATE remedy for it? IS NOT TO DIVORCE! Can't get much simpler than that folks, really.
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youngatheart
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Or just stay near the other parent while your child is a minor. That's pretty simple too.
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LexieBelle
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No, not really YAH, not in this day and age. Again, THE simplest thing? DON'T DIVORCE. THAT is the ultimate solution. I really can't grasp the antiquated ideas folks have. Really I don't. My dad is 71 years old and is more.. cognizant/understanding.. of the realities of today's world. And for the record, my dad is NOT a generally tolerant/understanding kind of guy lol.
Anyway, it's funny.. those who are most vehement.. let's see.. you've kept your children close by.. kept dad involved, blah blah blah. Isn't your daughter struggling with her relationship with dad? M5.. dad was involved.. stepdaugher doesn't want to go there anymore. Yeah, staying close by REALLY helped those relationships.. BAER. It's just funny to listen to you guys preach about "you gotta stay within spitting distance and live your life for your children" and all of you have NCP/child relationship issues.. Hmm... just sayin'...
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youngatheart
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Ummmm...my kid's dad didn't stay close by. He chose to move away...6 months after the divorce, and then even further away 4 1/2 years after that.
The issues Ex and Daughter have in there relationship have MUCH to do with him choosing to move away from his kids. And that is with Ex being MUCH MORE involved that your Ex.
Pretty simple...stay near your kid's other parent. Easy peasy.
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LexieBelle
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Okay, you're right.. it's what you want to hear so there you go, here's your "you're right", have a nice day!
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youngatheart
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I don't need to hear anything. I know what I know.
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LexieBelle
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Good for you, so do I :) And I'm very well aware of your situation and frankly? Not a good example for proving your argument.. at ALL. And the move-away as I recall was NOT a very big distance.. at all. In your mind it was, but it really wasn't. further when YOU were considering moving THEN it was fine and dandy EXCEPT you expected dad, JUST because he moved "first" to bear the lion's share of responsibility even though you were moving TOO.
It is what it is. And I'd be willing to bet the girl's issues have far more to do with stuff NOT to do with her father, than they do with him.
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ssmom79
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That is your ultimate solution but it is not THE ultimate solution. The solution is subjective and depends on the people involved. In your case a move away was BETTER for the relationship your child. That is not the norm, usually it results in less time together and relationships can be difficult to cultivate with distance.
M5 and YAH have drastically different situations and it's extremely poor taste to attempt to rub that in their face. You're really starting to act like the people you warned this poster about. So here is your 'you're right LB, of course you're right' and have a good day.
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DedicatedDad
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"And again, the ULTIMATE remedy for it? IS NOT TO DIVORCE! Can't get much simpler than that folks, really."
Nothing you can do about it when spouse cheats and shoves divorce down your throat.
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Sherron
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"Anyway, it's funny.. those who are most vehement.. let's see.. you've kept your children close by.. kept dad involved, blah blah blah. Isn't your daughter struggling with her relationship with dad? M5.. dad was involved.. stepdaugher doesn't want to go there anymore. Yeah, staying close by REALLY helped those relationships.. BAER. It's just funny to listen to you guys preach about "you gotta stay within spitting distance and live your life for your children" and all of you have NCP/child relationship issues.. Hmm... just sayin'..."
Of course there is more to a parent/child relationship than physical distance, that's a given. Does anyone really believe that if Mr. M5 had been less involved and moved away, his relationship with his dd would be better? Or if YAH's ex hadn't moved, it would be worse? As a general rule, physical closeness is related to a better relationship... and while your dd's dad sees his child more now, you've noticed how it wears on her and tires her out, to the point that your preference would be cutting dad's parenting time in half. Extending his time is out due to her returning sick and with major behavioral issues after spending time with dad... dad working 2 full time jobs severely limits his ability to go see his daughter... and dd is not into phone calls... I hope I am wrong for your dd's sake, but I'm not seeing how there can be a healthy father/child relationship in the long run unless there are some changes.
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c_jane
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/06/07
Posts: 1759
Loc: In the Great State of Texas
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Best thing I ever did was move in the SAME SUBDIVISION when Exhole moved 25 miles further away than where we originally lived. Now DS can ride his bike/dirtbike over to visit me, I can run things to him, or copy stuff off the Internet, he can run fundraisers, etc. over to me.
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John Constantine: God's a kid with an ant farm.... He's not planning anything.
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youngatheart
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>>>Good for you, so do I :) And I'm very well aware of your situation and frankly? Not a good example for proving your argument.. at ALL. And the move-away as I recall was NOT a very big distance.. at all. In your mind it was, but it really wasn't.<<<
Ummm...you're wrong. He chose to move two hours away from his kids. It DOES impede his relationship with them. It DOES impede his time with them. It DOES impede his availability to be a part of their lives.
>>>further when YOU were considering moving THEN it was fine and dandy EXCEPT you expected dad, JUST because he moved "first" to bear the lion's share of responsibility even though you were moving TOO.<<<
Ummm...I would have been moving CLOSER to him. And yes, I would have still expected him to cover the driving of the distance he created.
>>>It is what it is. And I'd be willing to bet the girl's issues have far more to do with stuff NOT to do with her father, than they do with him.<<<
And considering I actually know the situation, I know better.
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M5M5
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You and I have 2 vastly different opinions on what makes a good parent. I never said he was a bad GUY, I said he was a bad parent...and he is. Sorry, he just sucks at it. I believe he does love your daughter as much as he is capable of it, but he still sucks at parenting.
"As for SL.. she's not a stepparent, she's not a PARENT, she's not even remotely qualified or experienced to have an opinion. Period. Why she's here boggles my mind quite frankly. As a single, childless person THE last place I'd be is on a divorce site. MUCH better things to do in life than hang out here and give advice about crap one known next to nothing about."
This? I mostly agree with you on.
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M5M5
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You make a good point, Sherron.
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M5M5
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Um? Know the history before you spout! SD doesn't want to come over because mom is more fun (money) right now. That won't last long. Dad can still go to her soccer games to see her, can still go to any school function to see her, etc. She lives just a few miles from here. This weekends is her weekend with dad...maybe she will make an appearance. Point is, dad is still very much involved in her life and not just the EOW aspect. He doesn't live his life for his child, but he is very involved...and is that jealousy I hear? I'm sorry you have such a piss poor father for your child, but try not to make out all others to be the same with their kids.
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M5M5
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Um, her dad did move too far...don't forget where she lives, PM. I live in east TN...and 7 hours from me has us sitting on the coast of SC or GA and that's with very little traffic. That is ALOT of driving to do (and this OP wants to go even further than that).
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finz
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LB: "As for SL.. she's not a stepparent, she's not a PARENT, she's not even remotely qualified or experienced to have an opinion. Period. Why she's here boggles my mind quite frankly. As a single, childless person THE last place I'd be is on a divorce site. MUCH better things to do in life than hang out here and give advice about crap one known next to nothing about."
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While I'm not generally a SL fan (and I believe she's not a fan of mine either....) she DOES get to have an opinion.
Everyone gets to have an opinion on this issue.....not just other's who are involved or potentially involved with move aways. In the end, OP will try to fight for what she believes is right for her family. It's 'normal' for her to tend to focus on what is advantageous to her. I think it's reasonable for her to also hear 'the other side.'
Like SL, I have no personal experience with possible move aways. I still have a valid opinion on whether I believe they are right or wrong. I think if you make a baby with someone, and commit to living in a certain area to raise a family, you should do everything humanly possible to keep that commitment. The RIGHT thing to do is still the RIGHT thing to do, even when it's more convenient to do something else.
Personally, I think many places in RI are nicer places to raise kids than many places on LI. That doesn't mean I would chose to move a child away from their other parent....it means I would have planned where I wanted to raise my kids BEFORE I started having them. For me, being close to extended family was VERY important. I chose to settle near that family instead of having kids elsewhere then claiming I had to move to be near family when the marriage went south to justify a move. That doesn't apply directly to OP, just to many of the move away threads here.
I'm not saying that I never think move aways are the best thing to do....so much depends on the particulars, like the NCP's involvement. In this case, the safety of the child with NCP is also a concern
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finz
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[quote]No, not really YAH, not in this day and age. Again, THE simplest thing? DON'T DIVORCE. THAT is the ultimate solution. I really can't grasp the antiquated ideas folks have. Really I don't. [/quote]
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That was my solution and you've criticized that.....
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LexieBelle
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Your choice to stay in your marriage had to do with MONEY. I remember when you came on here and you had this expectation and that of what he should give you to survive otherwise you couldn't have the kids. You were told you weren't going to get it, you had a hissy fit but lo and behold.. sure enough... you realized you weren't going to get what you wanted $$$-wise, so you stuck around.
A wee bit different than choosing to stay in your marriage for the children and NO other reason than that. If you'd gotten the bucks you'd thought you deserved? You'd have been OUTTA there WITH your children (because again, i remember that VERY clearly, NO WAY were you going to be NCP and you weren't going to have that but HE should pay for it).
So yeah I've criticized your solution.. it wasn't altruistic for your children's benefit, it was selfish for your own.
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LexieBelle
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I disagree. She has zero actual parenting experience, has no experience with raising a child never mind MOVING one, she has zero idea.
As for LI versus RI.. it's a no-brainer. I will give you my ex's statement "ANYWHERE but LI!" and "**I** wouldn't be here if I didn't have to be" and HE isn't staying there. It's generally a hellhole. He wouldn't debate that. As for moving to be near family.. well, easy for him to say he LIVES WITH the only family he has contact with and he hates that. He also does have other family resources in the forms of aunt and uncles etc if needed. My family is a little different in that there is me.. JUST ME. There are no other siblings, etc. I'm it. This was always a known deal, from the week he left.
All of that is just pieces of a bigger puzzle which is that, in general, everything about here is better than there. And that's not just about "here" it's about what results from being here. Dad makes more effort, time spent with dad is more productive/quality. Etc etc etc etc etc.
It was a good move, for good reasons.. people see exSO as THE REASON for the move. Not true. He was a catalyst.. an open door to walk through. Everything happens for a reason and while our relationship wasn't meant to last I absolutely 1000% believe we reconnected to get back up here. No doubt in my mind. And it's where we should be. No doubt. Ex knows that too. He's going to make more effort to spend more time up here I gather. Nothing crazy but just a day trip here and there. Which is fantastic. But ultimately? He's going to be in California where HE wants to be. And I will bet big money that'll happen before dd is 18. This is where her life is, that's where he wants HIS life to be.
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Sherron
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"She has zero actual parenting experience, has no experience with raising a child never mind MOVING one, she has zero idea. "
Maybe she's qualified to have an opinion because she's been a child...
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finz
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[quote]Your choice to stay in your marriage had to do with MONEY. I remember when you came on here and you had this expectation and that of what he should give you to survive otherwise you couldn't have the kids. You were told you weren't going to get it, you had a hissy fit but lo and behold.. sure enough... you realized you weren't going to get what you wanted $$$-wise, so you stuck around.
A wee bit different than choosing to stay in your marriage for the children and NO other reason than that. If you'd gotten the bucks you'd thought you deserved? You'd have been OUTTA there WITH your children (because again, i remember that VERY clearly, NO WAY were you going to be NCP and you weren't going to have that but HE should pay for it).
So yeah I've criticized your solution.. it wasn't altruistic for your children's benefit, it was selfish for your own. [/quote]
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Check your memory.
In your fantasy recollection, where did all the money I wanted for my husband to give me come from ? You forget, I know how much he makes.
Money was certainly a factor.....I didn't and don't want to lose what we do have to an expensive custody fight.
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finz
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I'd also like to throw out a challenge.....show me where that happened LB.
Show me having a hissy fit over ANYTHING like the situation you discussed.
I have no problem discussing with anyone here any post I've made
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SweetLight
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/07/10
Posts: 2016
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My parents are divorced, and I’m thankful my Dad did not move away. My oldest sister has 4 children, and her ExH moved away about a year ago. His job required him to move from SW GA to Bethlehem, PA, about 1,000 miles away. He was a very involved Dad, and no doubt my 3 nephews are missing their father. It’s been really hard on them, particularly the younger 2. My oldest nephew is away at college. My niece (the oldest) recently graduated from college, and moved up there with her boyfriend. They are currently living with my former BIL, and they are looking for work in Philly. The younger two have cried themselves to sleep, even though they are football players.
Experience is not required in order to have an opinion. LB has lots of opinions on things she has zero experience with. It’s OK. Nobody should have to list their resume or accomplishments each time they have an opinion on something. How exhausting that would be. *winky eyes* Opinions don’t require experience. They are not even based upon fact or knowledge, it’s simply how you feel about something.
Opinion- Here's the definition of opinion- from someone other than LB. The people with actual experience in providing defintions, LOL!
A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
A view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter."
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SweetLight
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/07/10
Posts: 2016
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“why isn't it okay for me to present my experience and knowledge and share it as MINE and it's just dandy for 'x' number of people to speak in absolutes!?”
----->I think the question for you is “why isn't it okay for others to present their experience and knowledge and share it as THEIRS, but it's just dandy for YOU to speak in absolutes!?”
“whatever it takes. If it means giving a date 15 times.. giving directions 10, that's what I'll do ;) there's a LOT worse out there. What I do is administrative.”
----->And yet you criticize someone else for being “a secretary” in their intimate relationship. While you raved how great it was getting your tampons organized by your ExSo. It is truly amazing how you contradict yourself so frequently. Or were you looking for a rah, rah, rah with the secretary statement? It’s too hard to tell with you…
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LexieBelle
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No fantasy recollection.. and your "hissy fit" was in your following me around after I pointed out how crazy your expectations were, and just generally being a bytch to me for that reason. Did you have a hissy fit on the thread itself? No.. but your behavior with me afterwards spoke for itself given it was the ONLY interaction we'd ever had so there'd be NO other reason to behave with me as you did OTHER than you were hissying over what I told you (which turned out to be true). You wanted your husband to support you, given you were disabled... you definately had way unreasonable expectations AND expect to keep your children. You've obviously found that to be true and you've said so.
am i wasting my time going through years of threads to "prove" it? No, don't need to. I'm very confident in my recollection.. you wanna do it? Be my guest. I know what I know, what I said to you was accurate and you had a snit fit over it which you exhibited in generally being a bytch.. end of story. Common theme around here when people are proven wrong, all hell breaks loose. Over it.
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finz
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FYI,
My initial unpleasant encounter with you was over YOUR hissy fit in a thread discussing BREASTFEEDING.
Seeing as you are now claiming anyone without a lot of experience isn't allowed to have an opinion.....Please share with everyone here your resume and experience with breastfeeding.
Soon after we had a debate within the topic of whether it was more expensive to raise small children or teens (How many teens have you raised ?), where I didn't even have a strong feeling on either site of that main debate, but pointed out that it was wrong of you to say it was ALWAYS more expensive to raise younger kids because of YOUR high cost of childcare on LI because no one MADE you chose to raise kids on LI. You were most adament that it wass NOT POSSIBLE for you to move. Remember that ? Not that you didn't WANT to move, which would be a choice, because you wanted to get back together with your ex, but it was NOT POSSIBLE for you to move.......
Gee......who moved making themselves a LIAR and PROVING themselevs WRONG ? Oh yeah, that would be YOU.
I don't like you because you are a bully. I have pointed out when I think your advice or read on a situation is correct. I also comment when you speak in absolutes and present your OPINION as FACT to dismiss other's opinions.
Regarding your fantasy recollections on my history......never happened. You are saying it again here....."You wanted your husband to support you, given you were disabled... you definately had way unreasonable expectations AND expect to keep your children. You've obviously found that to be true and you've said so"
I'm saying AGAIN.....never happened. So I'm saying again.....PROVE IT. Show me and this entire forum where I ever said that was my expectation.
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M5M5
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Thought I'd just chime in right here and say that I remember the threads that you, Fintz, are talking about. I don't remember you throwing a hissy about anything, but I do distinctly remember the breastfeeding and toddler/teen thread.
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Sherron
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And for those without photographic memory...
divorcesource.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=439866&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1
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c_jane
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/06/07
Posts: 1759
Loc: In the Great State of Texas
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Who needs Soaps when you have DS??
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John Constantine: God's a kid with an ant farm.... He's not planning anything.
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finz
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[quote]And for those without photographic memory...
divorcesource.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=439866&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1 [/quote]
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awwww......a divorce source classic !
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LexieBelle
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Good to know who has no life and time to waste :) Just peeped in on this thread to see if you all were still going.. of COURSE you are :)
I try to frequent here/post here much less.. life is happier/healthier without the drama and life has enough of its own drama anyway.
Carry on!
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finz
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lol.......running away and hiding is a commonly used tactic when you realize you've been caught in a lie and lost the battle.
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