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gr8Dad
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OT-A VICTORY for atheists...
      #776591 - 02/02/12 09:33 AM

[censored]://[censored].aclu.org/blog/religion-belief/dont-b-shocked-settlement-shows-public-schools-cant-proselytize

If you have the guts to watch the video on the ACLU site, it is the EXACT reason why atheist group fight to SMALLEST imposition of religion in public schools. THIS is what it leads to.

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LexieBelle
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #776593 - 02/02/12 09:42 AM

There has been another one recently, actually in my area, where the Supreme Court has gotten involved and ruled for the atheist. They had to cover up a prayer thing that's been in one of the high schools for AGES. But reality is, it's religion, it's does NOT belong in schools.. PERIOD.. and I'm glad the girl (she's like 15 or 16 I believe) won. I think it's AWFUL the way she's been treated. You don't see atheists act with the hatred and malice "Christians" do in the name of "protecting religion". You have churches, go preach there. Keep it OUT of my schools.

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ssmom79
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: LexieBelle]
      #776594 - 02/02/12 09:48 AM

Wow, that is pretty shocking way to behave in a public school. Evangelical assemblies do not belong there.

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Maury
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: ssmom79]
      #776595 - 02/02/12 09:56 AM

Amen! Um . . . I mean . . . good for you.

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gr8Dad
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: ssmom79]
      #776596 - 02/02/12 10:00 AM

One of the more troubling things is this was a SPECIFIC sect of Christianity. Even BELIEVERS would have had a problem, ie Catholics, Jews, etc.

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Maury
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #776597 - 02/02/12 10:02 AM

Agreed

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Runswithscissors
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #776601 - 02/02/12 11:14 AM

You know... my son told me at dinner the other night that a new girl came to school.... he introduced himself to her, said she was really nice.... (I love my son). Well, it turns out this new girl is atheist. He said "xxxx is a total dick mom, he found out that [censored] was atheist and everyday tells her he will pray for her and gives her stuff on the Baptist church".... He said all the kids are giving her a hard time..... He's made friends with her and said in reality, she was sweeter and nicer than some of the baptist... we talked alittle about it and I told him I was proud of him for not conforming. While he believes in God (raised Methodist) he also has tolerance for all religions... you should of seen the mess after a Muslim moved into our town... blessit....

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gr8Dad
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: Runswithscissors]
      #776603 - 02/02/12 11:19 AM

Good on him. More and more people are falling away from the believers, and societies are going to HAVE to cease the harrassment.

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javajunkiee
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: Maury]
      #776604 - 02/02/12 11:24 AM

If the Anderson family thinks that everything will now be hunky-dory they're in for a rude awakening. If they didn't have the proverbial target on their backs already for acknowledging their atheism, that target just grew ALOT bigger. The more devout citizens of our state do not appreciate any gov't entity interfering with their practice of religion no matter where it occurs, including in the schools.

It may look nice and politically correct on paper, but I'd bet you anything that suffering through the religious prosleytizing will end up seeming minor to the unofficial backlash the kid gets over this.

FTR - not agreeing with it. Just being (unfortunately) realistic.

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LexieBelle
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: javajunkiee]
      #776605 - 02/02/12 11:34 AM

The girl here is going through h-e-l-l. While it might not seem it, this state is pretty religious, made up of a largely catholic community. PARTICULARLY in the town where this girl challenged the prayer in the school. I'd say it's the 2nd most "religious" (Catholic) town in the state. Backlash has been huge, I've seen it from people I considered "friends" on fb. I can't engage in their comments or I know either I would be defriended or I'd have to defriend them. People are soooooooo obnoxious about their religion sometimes. And it's funny I haven't seen a single person "rah rah" like rub it in anyone's face that the girl won, but oh my oh my, the ones who are supposedly "christians" are wayyyy nasty.

I'll probably have to cut loose a few FB people. The hypocrisy of people of "religion" and their in life actions just kill me. I've got one who was spouting off on the Cranston issue how IF there were MORE religion in schools there'd be less bullying in schools etc. Hmm.. she was pretty religious growing up and she was a big ole bully. her daughter is one of the meaniest little girls I've ever met. And this girl is always spouting off about doing the right and yadda yadda.. umm, try not sponging off state foster care dollars, fraudulently claimed unemployment and oh, I don't know why don't you use some of that money to pay the mortgage on your house you haven't paid on in 3 years. Drives me NUTS.

Then I got a guy, another one always spouting about God this and god that, blah blah blah. Foul rants against who knows me in general, frequently, but the ones that REALLY get me are the constant, non-stop rants about his now ex-wife. If I prayed? I'd seriously pray his daughter never finds the ENDLESS stream of nastiness about the woman who gave birth to her. It's awful. That's Christian? That's godly? Ugh. But he'll rant on and on about this thing in Cranston. It's soooooo hypocritical. Makes me literally feel sick to my stomach. I've done a lot of fb "cleansing" recently and I'll do another pass soon and those two? Will be the first to go in that pass.


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Cassie23
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: Runswithscissors]
      #776607 - 02/02/12 11:48 AM

You know... my son told me at dinner the other night that a new girl came to school.... he introduced himself to her, said she was really nice.... (I love my son). Well, it turns out this new girl is atheist. He said "xxxx is a total dick mom, he found out that [censored] was atheist and everyday tells her he will pray for her and gives her stuff on the Baptist church".... He said all the kids are giving her a hard time..... He's made friends with her and said in reality, she was sweeter and nicer than some of the baptist... we talked alittle about it and I told him I was proud of him for not conforming. While he believes in God (raised Methodist) he also has tolerance for all religions... you should of seen the mess after a Muslim moved into our town... blessit....

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I didn't look at the link, however my daughter who is a Christian has had the opposite happen to her. She has had a few atheists try to "convert" her. She doesn't bring up religion, but she has been asked on occasion- "What religion are you?" She has answered, "Christian." After that she has been told that only blacks can be Christian (???) and that they would like to talk to her about converting her to atheism. She has just replied "No, I'm good", but I think it can go either way. However no one should have to deal with being harassed because of what you do or don't believe.


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gr8Dad
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: javajunkiee]
      #776608 - 02/02/12 11:51 AM

"The more devout citizens of our state do not appreciate any gov't entity interfering with their practice of religion no matter where it occurs, including in the schools."

They are under the magnifying glass right now.

"but I'd bet you anything that suffering through the religious prosleytizing will end up seeming minor to the unofficial backlash the kid gets over this."

What is REALLY scary is that this is KNOWN and TOLERATED by the general public. THIS is why religion does not belong anywhere but in a CHURCH, because even amongst similar religious beliefs, there are WIDE ranging belief structures. To many Evangenlical and Southern Baptist groups, Catholics are one step above SATAN.

So if these groups will attack the Anderson's. for merely refusing their beliefs, they NEED to be stopped, just as ANY group such as the mafia, biker gangs, etc, would harrass a person who DARED to "cross" them.

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gr8Dad
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: Cassie23]
      #776610 - 02/02/12 11:55 AM

While those students are WRONG, and should be spoken to about it, there is a HUGE difference between another STUDENT talking to her about religion, and the leaders of the SCHOOL planning an event that addresses religion.

I commend your daughter for her belief, and her attitude about NOT defending it, merely refusing their attempts at "coercion". I would say that these students are probably not "atheists" as much as "rebels", using VALID anti religious arguements merely to argue.

I consider myself an agnostic (I could be convinced, if I saw REAL evidence), but personally, as long as it does not infringe on MY life, don't care if someone else prays to the sun god.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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LexieBelle
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: Cassie23]
      #776611 - 02/02/12 12:03 PM

I think you'll find there are FAR fewer atheists that would try to convert you to atheism than the other way around.

I say I'm an "atheist" but like Gr8, I'm more of an agnostic, heavily leaning towards atheist b/c I don't believe any actual proof could ever be acquired in my lifetime. That said, I don't push my beliefs on anyone IRL (here is simply debate, please don't think I am trying to convert anyone OUT of believing, I really do just mean to debate/discuss here). DD has learned about God in school. Her kindergarten teacher gave out a book that I thought was a wee bit religiously presumptive for a public school, in today's age, but whatever. She learned all about Hanukkah and Kwanzaa etc. I don't allow the use of the word "God" in like in "oh my god". I don't permit it. I don't allow other children to in my house either. Which is probably extremely odd for an agnostic/atheist. I just believe they are children, not old enough to form their own views and until they do, should they decide TO go the religious/believing route, they should be taught respect out of the gate.


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Cassie23
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #776612 - 02/02/12 12:05 PM

Oh I agree that's why my post was in regards to Runs post in which a student in her son's school was being hassled for being a non believer.

I would agree with your synopsis that these students are most likely "rebels" because one also explained to her that he is good at converting people, so maybe she should listen to him. She still refused and on occasion is still asked to hear his thoughts on atheism, but is never harassed.


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Cassie23
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #776613 - 02/02/12 12:09 PM

Just read the article- can't believe in this day and that is even happens! An assembly with a preacher, Christian music and pledging their lives to Jesus? Also if they refused to go they would have to go to ISS?? WOW, how ridiculous!

Even as a CHRISTIAN- I would oppose this. You cannot push people into believing in Jesus Christ, it has to be something they so choose. Wow. Just wow.


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javajunkiee
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #776616 - 02/02/12 12:29 PM

I don't disagree with you Gr8dad. The simple fact is the good ole boy network is alive and well in this state. It's like high school bullying only on a grown up level. I truly view it as a throwback to the segregation of the 50s, only instead of race its religion. People have learned how to put on the appropriate face and say all the right words condemning close-minded actions, but when they're not in the spotlight the gloves come off.

It's one thing in the south that I find utterly amazing after being here now 10+ yrs. At least in the north I found that in general, if someone didn't believe in something or want to do something? They TELL you - right to your face.

Down here? They will sweet-talk you, misdirect you, outright LIE to you, and then do whatever the heck they want.

And can I say? The hypocrisy is off the hook. We've had preachers get off the pulpit, stop off for a drink with their mistress, go home and beat their wife, and then get the charges dropped because his best buddy the sheriff claims it was all a 'misunderstanding'.

Hypocrites are everywhere, but I think the south has more than their share.

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LeAnne
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: ssmom79]
      #776617 - 02/02/12 12:33 PM

Do kids really know what religion they are and what they believe? They are taught what their parents believe at this age.
So really they have no clue, because they haven't been exposed to other religions and been able to decide for themselves.

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annieo
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #776619 - 02/02/12 12:50 PM

"Catholics are one step above SATAN."

That's a new one on me - I am Catholic and I suppose one step above Satan is better then in bed with Satan ;)

I do not press my faith on others and I appreciate others not pressing their faith on me however I do like hearing about other faiths and have visited many different denominations/churches. I just do not want someone to try and convert me - not gonna happen.

I also have no problem with people not believing there is an abundance of literature available for believers and non-believers that people can make their own informed choice. They do not need my help.

I suppose it may be different if I was of a faith that wants to "save" people and professed their faith at every opportunity given that is a large part of some faiths. However I do not think people should push their beliefs, any beliefs about anything, on anyone. Talk about it sure but not try to MAKE me believe and to have an assembly such as the one in the article is grossly over stepping in a public school and to give ISS to those who do not attend is so wrong I do not even know where to begin...


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MrsB
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: Cassie23]
      #776620 - 02/02/12 01:16 PM

<<I didn't look at the link, however my daughter who is a Christian has had the opposite happen to her. She has had a few atheists try to "convert" her. She doesn't bring up religion, but she has been asked on occasion- "What religion are you?" She has answered, "Christian." After that she has been told that only blacks can be Christian (???) and that they would like to talk to her about converting her to atheism. She has just replied "No, I'm good", but I think it can go either way. However no one should have to deal with being harassed because of what you do or don't believe.
>>

I have had more experience with this than the other way around as well.

My son - God bless him! - is so tolerant of others, and it's something I'm very proud of and I have always tried to instill in him.

It'd be difficult in our neck of the woods for children who aren't Christian either - Bible belt, strong Christian community, etc...


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Runswithscissors
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: LeAnne]
      #776621 - 02/02/12 01:22 PM

I agree and this is the reason I take my kids to different churches...they were raised Methodist as this was where they were baptized as a child.....but, I have taken them to all services so they can see different pov. I practist Buddhism, but my children do not, so I have not put any of my beliefs on them.... Just as I believe gr8dads children are Christian and agnostic.

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MrsB
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: annieo]
      #776622 - 02/02/12 01:22 PM

I used to be Catholic - my parents are, and most of my family, and X's family.

Most of the Catholics I know are probably the most tolerant of all - and I'm sure it also may depend on where one lives. I definitely know some extremely non tolerant Catholics who believe everyone else is just awful if they aren't Catholic :). Although I believe that goes for any religion or denomination. You will always have your bad apples!


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gr8Dad
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: Runswithscissors]
      #776624 - 02/02/12 01:33 PM

Yes, my adult children are agnostic, my youngest child is a practicing Catholic, and my gf is a nondenominational Christian. We simply don't discuss religion much, LOL. When the youngest is around, I put on my "good Catholic" disquise and answer his questions as truthfully as I can without popping the bubble.

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Debi
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #776652 - 02/02/12 08:41 PM

So is there a difference between having religion or prayer forced upon you in school and having a class that teaches about world religions? I'm just curious because personally I feel it's important for my children to learn about other religions just as it's important to learn about other races or cultures.

So I'm just wondering if other people feel it's ok if it's taught as long as there isn't prayer or religious assemblies in school.

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Runswithscissors
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: Debi]
      #776653 - 02/02/12 08:43 PM

I think it should be taught..... and the kids can decide if they want to sign up for it... it should not be required... I know it's that way in college.... why not HS or Middle school as an elective.

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ssmom79
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: Debi]
      #776655 - 02/02/12 08:59 PM

My issue was definitely the assembly in school. I don't feel an elective course would be harmful. Students attending the course would dictate if it survived...not enough interest, no class. But if the situation occurred exactly how I read it, then I definitely feel that was poor choice.

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Debi
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: ssmom79]
      #776660 - 02/02/12 10:12 PM

FTR I was not trying to compare the two....Just curious as to where people stood. My daughter is taking World Religion as an IB elective in high school. She really enjoys the class and has learned a lot that she didn't know. A couple of years ago there was talk about removing it from the cirriculum due to conflict. I'm glad they didn't.

My personal belief is that everyone should be allowed to worship or not as they see fit as long as no one is being persecuted. Something I believe our country was built on. I no longer follow a religion but I do believe in God and that there is some type of afterlife. I have no proof God exists and I'm ok with that. I'd hate to have someone badgering me that He doesn't exist. I'm also ok with others believeing He does not. As for after life, I've had some pretty strong reasons to believe that exists in some type of capacity.

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SweetLight
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: LexieBelle]
      #776669 - 02/03/12 01:16 AM

You don't see atheists act with the hatred and malice "Christians" do in the name of "protecting religion".

----->You do it a lot. So strange that you don't allow the G word in your home. Out of respect of course (out of the gate). BAER. The tolerant being oh so very telerant. :-)))


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Gecko
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #776675 - 02/03/12 03:07 AM

it is the EXACT reason why atheist group fight to SMALLEST imposition of religion in public schools. THIS is what it leads to.

---> Uh huh...and marijuana leads to mainlining heroin.

---> Now before you have a conniption, I totally disagree with what this school was doing. Forcing kids to sign 'pledge cards' for Jesus...it's outrageous. It's also outrageous to claim that if all religion isn't eradicated from school...''THIS'' will happen.

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sally1234
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: MrsB]
      #776695 - 02/03/12 10:15 AM

I do not understand why someone who does not believe in God has any desire to get someone else to look at life that way? How is not believing in something worthy of persuasion? I think there's an annoyance when public figures profess their beliefs (Tim Tebow comes to mind). I think the envy comes from the fact these people are always happy...not much for her politics - but even Palin is always happy. It is kind of the way people can get jealous over another's success. I think it's kind of sad. To be fair, I do not like the way some Christians heep their beliefs on others either either...but getting someone to convert to a belief in "0" is strange and kind of sad.

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ssmom79
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: Gecko]
      #776696 - 02/03/12 10:18 AM

Forcing kids to sign 'pledge cards' for Jesus...it's outrageous. It's also outrageous to claim that if all religion isn't eradicated from school...''THIS'' will happen.
______________________________

I agree.


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LexieBelle
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: sally1234]
      #776700 - 02/03/12 11:04 AM

Just because one doesn't believe in "God" doesn't mean they don't believe in ANYTHING. I believe everything is part of a cycle and everything goes through the cycle and returns back INTO the cycle.. so to speak. I believe in "old souls"... people who have passed this way before.. in other bodies/forms. We come from nature, we go back into nature and are re-born through nature. That's my belief. I don't believe in NOTHING, I believe in something different.

As a Christian, you get comfort in going to heaven, meeting Christ, whatever.

I get comfort in knowing I'll go back through this earth again.

I don't believe in anyone pushing their religious beliefs, for OR against, in schools. Teaching what a belief IS and what it ENTAILS is part of history and is educational and kids NEED that. They don't need to be.. recruited.. I guess I would say the word is. Nor do I think they should be.. punished.. for what their beliefs are, or are not.

If people want their kids to go to schools where religion is PROMOTED? Then send your kids to religious school then. There are plenty of them out there, pony up your own money and send your kids to that kind of school. PROMOTION of religion doesn't belong in PUBLIC school. Period.


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gr8Dad
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: Gecko]
      #776704 - 02/03/12 12:06 PM

"---> Uh huh...and marijuana leads to mainlining heroin."

Actually, ILLEGAL marijuana DOES lead to harder drugs, in the SAME way ANY religion in public schools leads to things like this. When getting ANY "illegal" product, you have to deal with people who deal in illegal products. The profit margin on pot is VERY VERY low, thus if they can get you hooked on something like coke or meth, they will turn a bigger profit. Religion is a BUSINESS. And simply making your "product" available to the masses is not enough for MANY religions (And Christianity is one of them). They need to see a "return", ie, asses in the pews. That comes with membership drives and "pledge cards". Thus, allowing ANY religion into schools causes this.

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gr8Dad
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: Debi]
      #776706 - 02/03/12 12:28 PM

"My daughter is taking World Religion as an IB elective in high school. She really enjoys the class and has learned a lot that she didn't know."

I have no problem with a FACTUAL class on religions of the world. I think it is interesting, and have taken such classes myself. The problem is that MANY of these "classes" can be summed up with, "Here is why all other religions besides Christianity are wrong, and this is why Christianty makes sense, even when it doesn't make sense..."

The few classes I started and COMPLETED in that regard (I will walk out when it turns into a Christian CHEERING class), taught the TRUTH. The problem with teaching TRUTHFULLY about religions is that you teach the POSITIVES and NEGATIVES (as you do with ANY historical subject), and in a Christian dominated society, teaching about the NEGATIVES of Christianity is usually met with a refusal of acceptance. Of course, you would run into the same thing trying to teach the negatives of Islam in Iraq.

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MrsB
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: sally1234]
      #776715 - 02/03/12 01:08 PM

[quote]I do not understand why someone who does not believe in God has any desire to get someone else to look at life that way? How is not believing in something worthy of persuasion? I think there's an annoyance when public figures profess their beliefs (Tim Tebow comes to mind). I think the envy comes from the fact these people are always happy...not much for her politics - but even Palin is always happy. It is kind of the way people can get jealous over another's success. I think it's kind of sad. To be fair, I do not like the way some Christians heep their beliefs on others either either...but getting someone to convert to a belief in "0" is strange and kind of sad. [/quote]

In my experience, those who try to persuade others of anything, in a hateful manner, just are people who think they have all the answers, and know the answers - whether they are Christian, Athiest, whatever. Also, I think a lot of them (the Athiests who do this) are those who have had negative experience with Christians...so instead of only choosing not to believe in God, maybe they also choose to dislike the entire religion and all of those in it, because of those negative experiences. Can't say I necessarily blame them - however, even I, as a Christian, have had negative experience with other "Christians" (on this board for example) - not all who call themselves Christian are a good example of Christ - and instead of disliking everyone, I do believe most are not that way, and certainly not all. I always hate to hear of someone turning away from God because of how some Christians choose to act.


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gr8Dad
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: MrsB]
      #776718 - 02/03/12 01:22 PM

I don't care WHAT a person thinks in their mind or how they live in their personal homes or churches. What bugs me are the MOSTLY CHRISTIANS in this country who don't want the government coming into THEIR homes, but have no problem voting and supporting the government going into someone ELSE'S home and forcing THEM to live under Christian beliefs. This is evident in the gay marriage debate, blue laws, alcohol and drug use, etc.

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annieo
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: LexieBelle]
      #776727 - 02/03/12 03:34 PM

"We come from nature, we go back into nature and are re-born through nature. That's my belief. I don't believe in NOTHING, I believe in something different."

When people are buried in a casket there is little going back to nature and when cremated most choose to keep the ashes in an urn thereby not going back to nature.

An "old soul" cannot physically go back into nature so how can the "old soul" come back through nature?

I may be misinterpreting and I am not trying to be rude or anything I am just curious how it works? I am kind of black and white so that may be my misinterpretation/misunderstanding?

I had not ever heard anything like this before and find it an interesting thought/belief =)


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gr8Dad
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: annieo]
      #776728 - 02/03/12 03:49 PM

"When people are buried in a casket there is little going back to nature"

You are thinking SHORT term, couple of hundred years, she is talking LONG term, like a couple a THOUSAND years, after which that box will be nothing but REALLY rich soil.

"and when cremated most choose to keep the ashes in an urn thereby not going back to nature."

You forget about the MAJORITY of the "organic matter" that is changed in state to smoke and vapor, and escapes through the chimney.

--------------------
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annieo
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #776730 - 02/03/12 03:58 PM

Coming from a family of funeral directors I was going from the way caskets are built now and that crematories have severe restrictions (some fume does get out)

Also there are what are called vaults that caskets go in not just a liner in the ground - actual vault that are sealed on top of the casket being sealed.

It is however as you have stated the short term in the grand scheme of things.

I was simply curious how it all worked for LB.


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gr8Dad
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: annieo]
      #776731 - 02/03/12 04:02 PM

That is why my "final" arrangements are ste in stone. I am to be cremated, and my kids are to fly the ashes to the New Jersey shore and go out on a fishing trip. While out there, throw the ashes in the ocean.

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Maury
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #776742 - 02/04/12 12:14 AM

Any chance they can notify us so we my appear and piss on those ashes?

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gr8Dad
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: Maury]
      #776766 - 02/04/12 07:22 PM

Only if you are facing west and the wind is from the west...lol

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Runswithscissors
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #776781 - 02/04/12 11:37 PM

I still have my dad in the closet...... I am waiting for the Master's this year to disperse them..... Creeps the kids out and they won't go in my closet... my thought is... who needs a lock on the door whe you have your dead dad in the closet.... My daughter hasn't touched my clothes in months..

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Gecko
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #776783 - 02/05/12 01:19 AM

My Dad is on the bookshelf...one of these days I will get back to Arizona and scatter his ashes.

When I brought Dad's ashes back home, my son asked if he could see what they looked like, so I opened the box and showed him. He said they looked like fireplace ashes.

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LexieBelle
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: annieo]
      #776793 - 02/05/12 11:13 AM

It's more of a spiritual thing Annieo. Your soul/spirit are released as soon as you die and they go back into nature. Don't know how to explain it. Gr8 pretty much captures it in what he explained though, in terms of the actual organic matter of the body itself.. and the cremation process and gasses etc.


Like he and Gecko, I want to be cremated. My ashes are to be strewn from a stretch of rocks that goes out into the ocean across from Bretton Point Park in Newport, here in RI. My grandmother was bedridden since I was born.. I would visit every 6 weeks or so but never did sleepovers until I was about 9. Spent one weekend there with my grandfather and it was THE single most special weekend of my childhood. My grandfather knew EVERYONE in Newport. Used to be a minister, turned insurance man. Would pay people's premiums for them when they fell on hard times. Spent heck, 20 some off years tending to his bedridden wife's EVERY need. No nurses, no assistance, just him. He died when I was 12. During that weekend, he took me fishing off those rocks. It's a symbolic thing for me. He's buried somewhere else but his heart and soul was in that spot. That's where I'm going.


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NikkiL
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #777043 - 02/07/12 11:17 AM

<<I don't care WHAT a person thinks in their mind or how they live in their personal homes or churches. What bugs me are the MOSTLY CHRISTIANS in this country who don't want the government coming into THEIR homes, but have no problem voting and supporting the government going into someone ELSE'S home and forcing THEM to live under Christian beliefs. This is evident in the gay marriage debate, blue laws, alcohol and drug use, etc.>>

Arent those people called REPUBLICANS?? And arent YOU a republican??


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googledad
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: NikkiL]
      #777048 - 02/07/12 11:54 AM

Shhh , he hasn't figured that one out yet .

Then again , he now considers himself a libertarian , in other words , post GW Bush hangover for diehard GOPers who now want everyone to forget ole GW ever existed but love his policies just like the current GOP Presidential crop .

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gr8Dad
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: NikkiL]
      #777058 - 02/07/12 12:58 PM

Nope, I am a libertarian.

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Gecko
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #777077 - 02/07/12 03:07 PM

I don't care WHAT a person thinks in their mind or how they live in their personal homes or churches. What bugs me are the MOSTLY CHRISTIANS in this country who don't want the government coming into THEIR homes, but have no problem voting and supporting the government going into someone ELSE'S home and forcing THEM to live under Christian beliefs. This is evident in the gay marriage debate, blue laws, alcohol and drug use, etc.

---> Where do you come up with all this stuff? Sorry to tell you, but "Christians" aren't responsible for all the supposed 'woes' of the world.

1. Not everyone who opposes gay marriage is Christian, and not everyone who opposes gay marriage is from a religion.

2. Not all 'blue laws' are religious in nature...unless you are saying that only people who are religious can have morals.

3. The "temperance movement"...wasn't started by any church or religion, but it did EVENTUALLY gain the support of many religious organizations, as well as the women's movement. Speaking of which...will you be blaming Christians for women's movement too?

4. Drug laws...LOL. It was religion that was responsible for our various drug laws...unless you want to count that many people pointed to the Mormons smoking dope as a good reason. The [sad] truth is...racism was the number one reason and you don't have to look any further than Harry Anslinger...the man who made marijuana illegal:

“There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others.”

“…the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races.”

“Marijuana is an addictive drug which produces in its users insanity, criminality, and death.”

“Reefer makes darkies think they’re as good as white men.”

“Marihuana leads to pacifism and communist brainwashing”

“You smoke a joint and you’re likely to kill your brother.”

“Marijuana is the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind.”

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gr8Dad
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: Gecko]
      #777120 - 02/07/12 07:30 PM

" ---> Where do you come up with all this stuff? Sorry to tell you, but "Christians" aren't responsible for all the supposed 'woes' of the world."

Never said that.

"1. Not everyone who opposes gay marriage is Christian, and not everyone who opposes gay marriage is from a religion."

Keep saying it, maybe you will convince yourself.

" 2. Not all 'blue laws' are religious in nature...unless you are saying that only people who are religious can have morals."

Yeah, I guess SUNDAY was pa coincidence.

" 3. The "temperance movement"...wasn't started by any church or religion, but it did EVENTUALLY gain the support of many religious organizations, as well as the women's movement. Speaking of which...will you be blaming Christians for women's movement too?"

Based on the writings of a Christian Universalist and the founder of a religious university. And no, Christianity, like MOST religions, not only had nothing to do with the women's movement, but have held women down for thousands of years.

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annieo
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #777124 - 02/07/12 07:50 PM

"1. Not everyone who opposes gay marriage is Christian, and not everyone who opposes gay marriage is from a religion."

Keep saying it, maybe you will convince yourself."

My husband is not of any faith and was not raised with any faith and he is more agnostic then atheist (he says he believes in Aliens....we agree to disagree, he did go to our sons baptism, which he did for me and my beliefs and for our son) and he is AGAINST gay marriages.

My stepfather is non-religious even though he was brought up with faith and he considers himself agnostic and he is AGAINST gay marriages.

I could go on and on...

You do not have to be a Christian or be involved in a religion or faith to be against gay marriages.


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MrsB
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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: annieo]
      #777125 - 02/07/12 07:53 PM

<<You do not have to be a Christian or be involved in a religion or faith to be against gay marriages.
>>

I absolutely agree with you annieo. I know several Christians who are not against Gay marriage, I also know some who are not Christian who oppose it.

One does not always have to do with the other.


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Re: OT-A VICTORY for atheists... [Re: gr8Dad]
      #777136 - 02/07/12 09:21 PM

Never said that.

---> Then perhaps you shouldn't use 'etc' in your sentence.

Keep saying it, maybe you will convince yourself.

---> Right...so everyone who has ever voted against gay marriage MUST be Christian? LOL

---> And what about all the Christians that support gay marriage?

Yeah, I guess SUNDAY was pa coincidence.

---> I should have realized that you can't read and have no morals.

Based on the writings of a Christian Universalist and the founder of a religious university.

---> LOL...the man was a MEDICAL DOCTOR and believed that "the excessive use of alcohol was injurious to physical and psychological health".

And no, Christianity, like MOST religions, not only had nothing to do with the women's movement, but have held women down for thousands of years.

---> I never knew you were a card-carrying member of N.O.W.

---> And what about those drug laws? Oh...and let's bring up abortion...those pesky Christians are against that too.

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