LexieBelle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/10
Posts: 3680
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No, I'm not "making it up".
I've watched interviews with him. Look, you may not like it or believe it BUT.. I'm pretty good at the evaluating/vibe thing. I bet I'm way closer to the mark than YOU would like to admit.
Yes, I think he is "evil", and I don't know what being an agnostic/atheist has to do with that. He's BAD. His thought processes are selfish, self-serving and just WRONG. YES, I think he is SANE. Yup. What he did was extremely calculated and well thought out and planned. Every detail. He hatcheted the kids so they couldn't escape. But he didn't want to KILL them that way.. just disable them. EXTREMELY well thought out. Insane, "I just lost it" people? Don't do that. No, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing and I'm betting he had, in HIS mind, totally rational/justified reasons for doing it.
I'll be very interested to see how it plays out.
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annieo
veteran
Reged: 07/07/10
Posts: 1413
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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I did not say they shouldn't have been taken (to figure it out) the case should have never been what it was it should have never transpired that way or gone anywhere. I said the pictures were playful pictures any parent has taken of their toddler children (they were her children not someone elses) you probably took similar photos - a camera shop employee turned them into the prosecutor so somewhere in there the camera person's "opinion" was used as a factor in taking the children and the prosecutor (after the heyday of the McMartin trials) used his unskilled in family issues, development, etc.. and did as he did.
There is a difference in child p orn and pictures of your young children in their diapers. On of the pictures that the prosecutor had such and issue with one of the little children got a hold of the camera and took the picture.
Josh's dad's pictures were clearly MORE then a toddler in diapers and with the added voyerism charges (several) it has to be ruled out that there is harm to the children.
Josh did move out and cut off contact and did not bail dad out so he was GETTING his children back but there was something holding that up and he did not like whatever it was and executed the murder suicide he had been planning since the hearing (or even before) the hearing took place on a Wednesday and the murder on Sunday.
Suicides are not generally insane people they are depressed individuals who see no way out and the majority of times it is planned they give stuff away, say their goodbyes, and seem happier after they make the decision.
Andrea Yates did not kill herself she killed her children and she woke up one morning and filled the bathtub and drowned the children. She called no one prior, she sent no emails, donated nothing, etc... Big difference between her and Josh. She was basically confined to her home and she killed them due to delusions she had that they needed to be safe/saved for God - total delusion and part of her mental health history not to mention she was suffering from post-partum depression - Josh had NONE of this.
My father committed suicide - he wasn't insane, he did not snap, he put his wallet in the dresser to make sure my mother got it, there were many suggestions after the fact that he planned it. He took my mother to work and went back home and took his life. He knew no one would find him right away. Just because one commits suicide doesn't mean they are insane - they are sane they have made the decision and carry it out - those who do not succeed it was many times a cry for help (which is sane) when one really wants to die they do not normally fail. If your looking for an insanity defense for Josh by saying he was insane because he killed himself you need to find another avenue. He wasn't insane when he killed his children either it was EVIL - he has NO history (that we know of) didn't have delusions etc...
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LexieBelle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/10
Posts: 3680
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My grandfather committed suicide as well. VERY well thought out/planned. He was highly dysfunctional in general but he was "sane/rational" when he did it. He knew what he wanted, he knew he was done and it was all VERYVERY well thought out/calculated/planned, complete with very specific jabs at family members (he killed himself with the he left my uncle, his son.. made sure how he'd be found AND by WHOM, etc). These people know EXACTLY what they are doing.. and why. And at least in my experience/research, the HOW is very very calculated. There's reasons. I have no doubt there's a REASON why he hatcheted those boys first. But, he also wanted them to suffer.
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elliesmom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 8835
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Gr8 - you are completely wrong about the posters whose husband had kiddie p0rn. I seem to recall her talking about how hard it was for her girls because their father was not allowed around ANY children - including them. They went from 50-50 to 100% her as soon as he was arrested.
Frankly I cannot believe you are trying to make this argument. He MURDERED his kids. Clearly - CPS was SPOT ON when they removed them from the home. Too bad he was so well behaved he was allowed to have twice weekly visits in his home. But he was an evil a-hole; not crazy. So he could hide it.
If he had murdered his inlaws - I could totally buy the argument that he was driven to his actions by the courts and the media hounding him.
But you can't argue a man is so broken up over the loss of his kids that he was driven to commit a crime he otherwise wouldn't have committed - when the crime is MURDERING said children. It makes zero sense. Not even crazy person logic follows that. Severe narcisism perhaps. But that is not crazy. Thats just a real a-hole kind of guy.
While I did kinda think he did something to his wife - it didn't seem like there was any evidence of that so I would reserve judgement. But now that I KNOW he is a murderer? I will go back and say - yup. SOB killed her. Which incidently - is how our justice system works. Typically prior bad acts are not admitted unless relevant, but ones you've done since then...totally fair game.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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annieo
veteran
Reged: 07/07/10
Posts: 1413
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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If you want cases of ramifications just look at the news when CPS workers are fired and policies change - no they are not strung up and beaten but there are consequences and in this day and age CPS does err on the side of caution.
Look at the cases where children are starved and beaten and abused and there was a case worker involved - look a the public outrage when that occurs.
Had CPS not taken these children and information came to light about the father child p orn and voyerism and nothing was done and then the investigation revealed that Josh (or his father) abused them (not saying that was happening) the public would be having CPS's hide. The psychosexu@l evaluation was for a reason - one does have to wonder why....
Had Josh kept them and then killed them when whatever came to light - the public would faulted CPS and we all KNOW that is true.
Are we privy to any information in regards to the family courts and the children - NO - as it should be and CPS acted on the information they had. Erring on the side of caution is significantly better then not. CPS may still have some fall out because the children were put in a position to where they could be harmed and many people thought they would be but as em said the man was calculating and could hide his true self long enough to get to the point the entire sad situation got to.
He planned this any way you look at it. One thing that really stands out to me is he allowed the CPS worker to live there was thought there and of course she would not have let him chop his children with a hatchet to fill his cruelty need - but he could have just blown the house up once they all entered and he wouldn't let her in - Thank goodness but that is PLANNED and there was a sane thought process that allowed that - he wanted to inflict pain on the children and he couldn't with her there he would have had to blow them ALL up and he did not. He had to have the where with all to time the explosion as well - the fumes had to have time to build.
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2019
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I see you are still defending the MURDER OF CHILDREN.
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elliesmom
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 8835
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So it seems that the judge prior to the Feb 1 hearing had viewed materials from Josh Powell's Utah home including animated p0rn of parent-child sex. Can you say "Hell Yeah" he didn't get the kids back. And it was unlikely he would pass a psychosexual exam and he knew it. Yuck.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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LexieBelle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/10
Posts: 3680
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[quote]So it seems that the judge prior to the Feb 1 hearing had viewed materials from Josh Powell's Utah home including animated p0rn of parent-child sex. Can you say "Hell Yeah" he didn't get the kids back. And it was unlikely he would pass a psychosexual exam and he knew it. Yuck. [/quote]
----------->> Thanks for sharing that EM.. I hadn't read that info anywhere.. but, damn I'm good!
(a few posts back I said: "He ACTS like a little boy, he SOUNDS like one. Wanna place bets on whether he was sexually abused? I would. I'd also place bets on whether he had those urges HIMSELF.")
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annieo
veteran
Reged: 07/07/10
Posts: 1413
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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I've seen a few new reports and this one disgusted me but it would explain why he did not get his children back and CPS was justified in removing them and goes to show just how selfish he is that he murdered them and did what he did with the hatchet. Hate to say it but the hatchet may have been to satisfy his need and not the cruelty need.... however there is no "evidence" of him actually perpetrating the acts but having the animated p orn that he had - can you say DISTURBED!!!
Some may say his father put it there but it was on HIS computer in his home in Utah. I wonder if he and his father were in cahoots?? Maybe the wife found out and then she disappeared....
Truly disgusting and good riddance just so sad he took the children with him who were innocent victims in all of this.
May the little ones rest in peace.
Josh can burn in he!! and that is too good for him.
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Miranda
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
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That info was just released. YES GR8DAD...simulated child parent sex images on his computer. I am sure this is A-OK? Still no reason for him to lose custody? THe problem is, is that there is plenty of info that the public has not been privy to. So, I guess all of this will be explained away too?
It was also just releases that Josh told his sons, "I have a big surprise for you Saturday." I wish he was still alive so that he could be killed and tortured all over again...
The case worker also reported that she heard the youngest boy crying after Josh pushed her out and locked the door.
Oh how I hope he is burning in hell. In fact, I think hell is too nice of a place for him.
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
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