markellis56
recently joined
Reged: 10/24/07
Posts: 16
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My sister is legally separated with joint custody with her soon to be ex husband. The children are 4 and 10 years old. She has just found out her ex has had at least 2 girlfriends at the same time AND allows both girlfriends separately to sleep over when he has the kids. One girlfriend was actually living with him! Now that's not the worse of it. Since NETHER Girlfriend knew about the other one he was having the children lie and keep his cheating a secret from each girlfriend. Plus he was telling the kids to not tell their mom about either woman. This has been going on for almost 2 years.
My sister is now taking him back to court to get full custody. She does not want her kids to grow up to think what their father is doing is OK. Lying and cheating right in front of the kids. My concern is I don't know if this will be enough to get the kids away from him? What do you guys think?
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SRS
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/05/10
Posts: 2161
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Nope. Not normally. His house, his rules.
WHy is it taking 2 years to get divorced?
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30386
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Well, it seems that if he allowed the kids to TELL Mommy, she would have been upset that Daddy was dating. Sorry, people set this up for themselves. Yep, its wrong to have the kids lie, but when you drag out a divorce for YEARS, hey, life goes on. And when you make it clear that you will make a stink about a new gf/bf, then your stbx will LIE about it.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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MrsB
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Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 6355
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I'm curious how she would know that he has two girlfriends alternating living with him? Do they have a legal court order for visitation, etc?
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SRS
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/05/10
Posts: 2161
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Gr8 is correct.
His house, his rules. I've actually BTDT on this one and it was only a 6 month divorce.
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javajunkiee
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/08
Posts: 3158
Loc: SC
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He can lie and cheat all he wants.
Yes - I said that.
The court doesn't have the time or resources to enforce morality; that will be up to your sister to counter with how she raises the kids.
Unless these women pose a direct, *physical* threat to the kids, or if there are drugs and drinking occurring that puts the kids in danger, your sister isn't going to get very far at all.
She can ask for modifications to the custody order, and likely get somewhere with that, but full custody because stbx thinks he's a gigolo? Not likely.
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Marriage doesn't come with a money-back guarantee.
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Renny
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Reged: 09/24/11
Posts: 479
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As long as there is a loving relationship with the girlfriends the kids will be ok. In fact the kids will learn that love is the most important thing in life, transcending laws made by mere mortals.
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finz
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Reged: 06/17/08
Posts: 6497
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If he can schedule a girlfriend sleeping over around his live in girlfriend AND get a 10 and 4 year to say what he wants them to......I'm thinking the guy deserves some kind of award for his mad skillz.
I wouldn't want to date, marry, or have kids with the guy, but have to give props to his juggling and manipulation skills.
Is this a sudden change in behavior for him ? I don't want anyone teaching my kids that a revolving bedroom door is a good policy, but if your sister fell in love with a smooth talker and decided to make babies with him, I don't think it's right for her to say that now he's not good enough/responsible enough to share custody of them.
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Sampoe
enthusiast
Reged: 01/27/11
Posts: 325
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[quote]I'm curious how she would know that he has two girlfriends alternating living with him? Do they have a legal court order for visitation, etc? [/quote]
Maybe she would know this for the same reason you know when your ex takes a crap! Because maybe, just maybe she is so consumed with her ex husbands life that she can't move on with her own. KWIM? Didn't your stbx try to tell you this during your entire short lived 2nd marriage.
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markellis56
recently joined
Reged: 10/24/07
Posts: 16
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How my sister found out was the girlfriend that was living with him called her and told her what was going on in front of the kids. Guess girlfriend #1 came home unexpectedly and found girlfriend #2 cuddled up on the couch with the boyfriend with the kids right there. The kids saw all this go down and guess it was not pretty when he finally got busted.
When my sister asked her older child about these females the child clammed right up and when my sister pushed her for more information she started to cry. Thats when my sister stopped. My sister brought the older one to a social worker and guess she got some information out of her but not much. Guess the ex husband was telling the kids he was not sure what female he liked and was trying to decide. In the mean time he was telling the kids not to tell the other one or even mention the other ones name in front of the other one.
So the real issue was not the fact the ex husband was hiding the girlfriends from the ex wife BUT the fact he was hiding the girlfriends from each other and dragging the kids into it.
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gr8Dad
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"How my sister found out was the girlfriend that was living with him called her and told her what was going on in front of the kids."
So the info is based on the word of a scorned female partner? Yeah, might want to check that out a little more.
"My sister brought the older one to a social worker and guess she got some information out of her but not much."
She took kids to a SOCIAL WORKER to get them to talk about DAD'S girlfriends? Your SISTER should have SUPERVISED visits, she is a NUTCASE.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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kkimberh
enthusiast
Reged: 03/24/10
Posts: 391
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See - I'm just such a hateful person... My first thought would be to tell kids to be sure to say, very loudly, "Daddy, Lying is WRONG and we shouldn't have to LIE about you having Another Girlfriend, blah blah blah" in front of one of the girlfriends.
There you go - problem solved...
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I love therapy. It's like a talk show, where I'm the guest and the only topic is me.
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Runswithscissors
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Reged: 05/29/04
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Unless the order states no overnight guests unrelated by blood or marriage- there really isn't anything she can do.
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Annie7676
old hand
Reged: 06/05/05
Posts: 862
Loc: NY
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Sorry I disagree. Having a 10 yr old and a 4 yr old witness this type of behavior from an adult who is their Dad will screw them up. And then having to put the weight of lying on them is even worse. Kids dont understand this type of behavior, yes they can adjust but at what price?
Having two girlfriends is fine, he can have as many as he wants a whole harem but putting such young kids in the middle is just wrong. And then having a confrontation between the two girlfriends in front of them is just sad and a terrible sight for kids to witness.
Kids are not his coverups and not his allies in this. Have all the girlfriends you want but leave the kids out of it. I dont think they are learning love only confusion and that memory of the girlfriend fight will probably stay with them a long time.
I am sure that many will disagree but divorce is hard enough on kids dealing with mommy and daddy no longer together and then seeing your parent with someone else and having to be thrust in the middle of a jerry springer type fight is not good.
My mom brought men home when she was first divorced when I was little and it was like a revolving door and very confusing for me and after a million years I still remember it. Of course you move on but it its something kids should not have to deal with.
I have friends that have done this with their kids, yes it is their right to do it but it leaves the kids confused and hurting.
And then one wonders why they may act out later or duplicate that behavior.
Taking the children to a social worker is probably a good thing because being able to express what they feel, not what the mom feels or the dad but them, is probably helpful.
I am sure this is very confusing for them.
The most important is to take care of the kids and help them but as adults sometimes we just fall flat on our faces when going through a divorce.
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annieo
veteran
Reged: 07/07/10
Posts: 1413
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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I agree to not put them in the middle of Daddy's affairs. We all talk about not putting a child in the middle and this would do just that.
When my father died I was 12 and my prim and proper mother had many boyfriends in an effort to not be lonely as she and my Dad were married for 16 years when he died and had been together since highschool for a total of 21 years so she was scared with two half grown children and there were several boyfriends before she remarried a year and half later. My parents have been married nearly 32 years now so there was only that time period but I will never forget it and it hurt me and my brother a lot.
Please do not put these little ones in the middle. Daddy should not be doing what he is but the children should not force an argument that will in all likelihood not end well...
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Renny
addict
Reged: 09/24/11
Posts: 479
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I agree that putting the kids in the middle of a triangle or quadrangle relationship is not a good idea. What I object to is assuming that children are necessarily harmed by what some might consider immoral, and I sensed moral indignation in the OP rather than objective concern for what's best for the children. I also think that sending the kids to a social worker or therapist in this case would be more harmful than the cheating and covering up that was going on. The children would most likely be taught that what went on was morally wrong and feel wronged themselves.
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Annie7676
old hand
Reged: 06/05/05
Posts: 862
Loc: NY
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No moral indignation on my part, it is what it is. The man as I had posted can have an entire harem, free to do what he wants. And I disagree that a therapist would lean towards what is morally wrong. Who cares what he does with the girlfriends.
What the kids may get out of a therapist is how to deal with their confusion and witnessing a fight. As Dr Phil puts it, give them tools to handle this.
Many would probably believe it is morally wrong for the Dad but above and behind the issue is the confusion the children may feel. At 10 yrs, it must be very hard for this young child to comprehend all the issues. Seeing your dad will different adults coming and going is the issue, not the morality of it.
I experienced it when I was little. I was too small to judge my mother but I remember how confusing it all was. A trained therapist may be able to help them and not teach morality.
Sounds impossible or stupid but any help is better than none I would think. Concern for the children should be the first endeavor anyone has.
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Renny
addict
Reged: 09/24/11
Posts: 479
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quote "I experienced it when I was little. I was too small to judge my mother but I remember how confusing it all was. A trained therapist may be able to help them and not teach morality." quote
Ultimately it all boils down to a moral judgment, in the sense of "understanding" a situation based on personal and cultural values, which of course is not synonymous with a religious judgment. If I may paraphrase you, you were confused at 10 because you were too young to make a moral judgment. You lacked the analytical/moral tools to make sense of (or judge) a complicated situation.
I remain skeptical of therapists. I view them at best as part of the constellation of professionals that help families get through painful divorces.
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c_jane
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/06/07
Posts: 1759
Loc: In the Great State of Texas
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The courts do not care really what is in the 'best interests of the children'. There is really nothing she can do. As long as the women aren't using drugs in front of the kids or beating them up the courts will just turn their heads.
There is NO justice in the 'system' at all. When my Ex moved a 'lady' in 6 months after we divorced and lived with her for a number of years -- I was told the judge would laugh me out of court if I tried to take custody away from Father of the Year <gag>.
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John Constantine: God's a kid with an ant farm.... He's not planning anything.
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almostfree
newbie
Reged: 05/12/06
Posts: 38
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My ex tells the kids all the time not to tell me things!
What the dad did was wrong but it is a morality thing and nothing else. Maybe she would probably be best off talking to the ex about it with out accusing him. No need to mention the gf's directly, just that it put the kids in a bad position. Technically, they may not of lied, they were just told to keep quiet about it.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30386
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"When my Ex moved a 'lady' in 6 months after we divorced and lived with her for a number of years -- I was told the judge would laugh me out of court if I tried to take custody away from Father of the Year <gag>."
He WOULD, its called a RELATIONSHIP.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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