gr8Dad
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Got a call today. Son is wearing an "inappropriate" shirt. I asked what is said. It has a Confederate flag and a pistol, and says, "I support gun control, I use both hands"
He got it for Christmas, has worn it to school 5 or six times since then, never a problem. For half of the day, no problem. Teacher sees him in the hallway and send him to the office. Vice Principal tells him to take it off. He refuses. They call me. I ask what policy of the school it violates. I am told it violates the policy of "no suggestive images". I say its not suggestive. The book says if there is any question, the Principal decides. Principal says no go.
Now, normally, I would cahlk it up to opinion, but this principal HATES my son. Not sure why, but she has done some of the most HATEFUL things to him. Double standards, harrassment, etc. She was removed from her last school for physical violence against a student (and it was a CATHOLIC school at that), and has a number of parents attempting to have her removed.
So I told him to change into one of the shirts that they had in the office and we will deal with it later. But it is EATING at me. I have taken about as much guff from this woman as I can stand, and a BIG part of me wants to stand up and say NO. I have given in on a LOT, and this is just ONE MORE TIME when she is abusing her power.
What do you think?
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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LexieBelle
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Given the amount of violence in schools and particularly GUN issues in schools? Absolutely INAPPROPRIATE for a school setting and she's 100% right, in this instance.
As a parent, if I saw your child wearing that shirt? I'd raising ALL manner of hell over it to be honest. Really totally inappropriate.
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gr8Dad
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And if it was inappropriate from the START, I would be all for it. But he wore it 5 or 6 times before, no problem, and he wore it all morning, no problem. Why is it all of a sudden a problem?
And I think you also have to consider where, in the country, YOU live, and where I live.
ETA: by the way, we are at an 30 year LOW on violent crimes over all. There is absolutely no increase in crime in schools or otherwise, that is a media lie being fed to the people to scare them and justify further reducing freedoms.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
Edited by gr8Dad (02/15/12 02:00 PM)
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LexieBelle
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I understand your point.. But the reality is that the world isn't always consistent, or fair.. and it is an inappropriate garment.
Regardless of crime stats or whatever, guns have NO place in schools, period. Not in actual bringing a gun, nor in the glorification of them in t-shirts or whatever. Period. When you're EIGHTEEN, and a legal adult? Then you can wear what you like, where you like. Not in public schools, as a minor. You don't get that right. Period. And if you happen to get away with not offending someone for 5 times and have a problem the 6th? Oh well, you got lucky.
I certainly wouldn't punish him for wearing it, mind you, it's a life lesson in people/things aren't always consistent. Is the way it is. BUT, there are rules and if the rules get applied? Well, then you accept the penalty.
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gr8Dad
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That is the approach I will take when I speak to him tonight. I am a big freedom kind of guy. And example I will use is here on the military base, they tried to force the motorcycle rider to take the basic riders course. My arguement was that statistically, MOST motorcycle accidents are caused by four wheeled vehicles. And that since I am LEGALLY licensed to operate a motorcycle, if they want to force an EXTRA amount of training, it needs to be on EVERYONE. Make the vehicle drivers take defensive driving, or something similar.
Now, they said NO, you WILL take the course, or you won't ride on base. So I refused...and I couldn't ride on base. They changed it (and I am signed up to take the course. I just didn;t want to be FORCED to take it), not its not mandatory.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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LexieBelle
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I also consider myself to be pretty big into "freedoms". However, can't say I'm absolutely black and white that it's a freedom free-for-all though.. in that the reality is that gun (or people with guns, whatever it is, don't want to get into that debate please) CAN have an effect on other people. meaning, someone shoots you, you could be injured, crippled, or dead. If I happen to be a guy and I like playing rump ranger in my bedroom at night and hey I wanna marry my dude? THAT is none of anyone else's business. Obviously I'm pro-choice. I was gonna post to Gecko's valentine's article below.. personally? I think it's stupid they're being charged. Their car? Public property? You wanna role play donkey kong, not my business.. okay someone was concerned, called it in but to CHARGE them? That's stupid.
Anyway, I do believe in the right to bear arms too BUT and this is a big BUT.. you're talking a minor child who hasn't EARNED that right just yet. And, unfortunately, guns in schools.. is a problem.
It would have been nice had the faculty been consistent on it..like noticed it day one and said "no way jose". Unfortunately, that's not the case.
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Debi
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My daughter has a GreenDay shirt with a gun on it (There is a rose coming out of the barrel), and she had also worn it to school several times (knowing she wasn't suppossed to) before someone either noticed or cared enough to tell her she couldn't. She was made to turn it inside out and told not to wear it again.
It may be true that the principal hates him but I don't think she acted out of line. Your son wore an inappropriate shirt, I'm sure he KNEW it was inapropriate since it had a picture of a gun on it (just as my daughter knew) and being a teenager having gotten away with it before he didn't see an issue. This time it was an issue. This is certainly not a hill I'd be willing to die on.
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When we were together, you said you'd die for me. Now, I think it's time you kept your promise.
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Terri1
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Reged: 06/03/05
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Where I live the shirt would not be able to be worn with the confederate flag or the image of the gun. Both would have pushed school staff over the edge. Even students would have been calling their parents to report it within a half hour of the start of school and it would have been a huge deal. My guess is that no one noticed it at first or may not have been too concerned until someone complained.
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gr8Dad
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"Where I live the shirt would not be able to be worn with the confederate flag or the image of the gun."
Kinda tough to ban the Confederate flag here, its on our state flag, LOL.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Tweeby
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I wouldn't get too upset abot it, it is inappropriate to wear to school. Your son just wasn't noticed wearing it before and once someone finds it offensive than it can't be worn again.
YS used to wear a shirt to school which SHOULD of been inappropriate but the teachers who understood what it meant just laughed and the ones who didn't understand just let it go. It was Stewie and Brian (From "Family Guy") in a canoe and it stated, 'Paddle faster...I hear banjo's'. He knew if someone told him it was inapproprate than he was to turn it inside out and not wear it again. Doesn't matter if it was the 1st or the 100th time.
I personally like that shirt that you mentioned. Where did your son get it because I know a few people who would LOVE that t-shirt. LOL
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gr8Dad
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I guess I find it ironic that a shirt that celebrates our first AND second ammendment rights can't be worn in a PUBLIC school.
Got it at WALMART, of course.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Tweeby
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Will check to see if we have it here.
Guns in school even on a shirt is not appropriate. I understand the reasoning why but a few people have ruined it for others.
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Redlegg
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I think this is the problem with the appropriateness issue, what if it was an image of a police officer, or a soldier, and they had a gun, someone who protects and defends students, citizens, a generally accepted positive image. As long as we agree with what is appropriate, we have no issues with it. We have read about students being told to not wear clothes that show the American flag on them, I can't imagine any flag that would be acceptable to some. I think just being offensive to some is not reason enough to say something is inappropriate, whether it is religious dress, a flag, or even a display of a gun.
In this case, even though there is a first amendment, and the supreme court has said that expressions like that are protected free speech, they also said the school has the right to edit materials to reflect school values.
I think the principal is making the right call. It either falls to she is picking on your son, or she is enforcing a standard the school holds. I would go with her upholding the standard, until I saw differently, if I had an issue with it, I would ask her what her reasons are for the ban. I would imagine it may be as simple as it heads off any disruptions, which is part of her job. It could be she just does not like guns, but if she upholds that standard for the entire school, then I would go with it. I may not agree with it, but I would try to understand and support it, as long as it seemed fair and consistent among all students.
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LexieBelle
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Because, in a public school, underaged children don't HAVE those rights. "Children" get "rights" at 18, or whatever the legal age is.
That's first of all.
Second of all, the right to bear arms is about PROTECTION, it's not about a general usage of guns. So what EXACTLY is the average 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, or 12th grader protecting? He or she owns a car? A home? Protecting a wife? Children? What EXACTLY is their big sense of guns for PROTECTION (again, the purpose for the Amendment)being driven by?
Oh, that's right.. NOTHING. The reality is that the 2nd Amendment was intended for protection of country ("A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.") because, at the time, the military was not necessarily the 'machine' it is now and the average farmer or farmer's son might take up defense against the British or whomever. The intent was NOT so that children could bring guns to school and blow away their classmates cuz it's their "right" to bear arms.
The gun enthusiasts I know and respect have said weapons because they are... I don't what the right word is.. survivalists? In a civil war would easily pick up arms and pick a side and fight? They are people older and wiser and who KNOW WHY they want or need a gun and know how to use it. They're not 16 year olds playing Call of Duty or whatever the heck game it is and thinks gunplay is fun and cool.
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Runswithscissors
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It should of started at home and he should of never been allowed to wear it... I mean.. seriously...
Son has some shirts from AF that I find not right for school so even at 13 he knows what he can and cant not wear... surely a kid in HS can figure that out....
Problem isn't with the school... problem is with using common sense at home
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ssmom79
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Check the code of conduct. Does it say anything about inappropriate clothing? Mine does. Guns on a shirt are inappropriate and would not be allowed. Yea he got away with it five times. But then he didn't. So don't wear it again. My SD got away with tank tops and flip flops for a whole semester. Then she got caught. No flip flops. Jacket over tanks now.
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Maury
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I am not sure that a Confederate flag is reasonably seen as a symbol of Freedom
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gr8Dad
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As I said, its on the state flag they pledge to every morning. And as an educated individual, I am sure you ate aware that it is NOT racist, merely a sign of the Confederate government during a civil war about states rights.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Miranda
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Pretty sure it was also used by the KKK as a symbol of violence and hate. Well after the Civil War...
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
Edited by Miranda (02/15/12 07:10 PM)
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Redlegg
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Actually that would be a confederate battle flag, the actual confederate flag that represented the government had a blue field in uppe left hand corner with stars in a circle, representing the confederate states, the rest of the flag was actually three stripes, red on the top and bottom, and white in the middle. It went through several iterations, eventually ending up with 13 stars. There was a change, where the field in the upper left was changed to the stars and bars design, but the entire rest of the flag was white. There was a third version, that added a red strip to the white portion. What is referred to as the confederate flag today never represented the CSA, and it was used by some military units.
Even though there is a legitimate historical background to the flag, the fact is that it can be disruptive, cause problems, and means different things to different people, out in the street, if you want to wear it, feel free, but in a school environment, the environment needs to take precedence, and there should not be a problem respecting the administrations decision to say no...in order to create a better learning environment for all students.
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Miranda
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Does it matter? It is still a variation of the confederate flag. I don't care what "generation" or variation it is. It is offensive to many, hence the reason for this entire thread.
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
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Redlegg
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It seems to:
"As I said, its on the state flag they pledge to every morning. And as an educated individual, I am sure you ate aware that it is NOT racist, merely a sign of the Confederate government during a civil war about states rights."
I just seems kind of strange that history is being rewritten when people say that represented the CSA, when it never did, it definitely represented the KKK. The fact is that it never represented the CSA, just like stars do not represent the USA. Call it what is, but do not try to legitimize it by making it something it is not.
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spinnerdegrassi
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Eh, to me the flag just represent the losers in war. So if a bunch of people want to keep on promoting their continued inferiority, I guess it's why we keep on making fun of southerners.
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Redlegg
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That is ironic, considering almost 30K natives fought in the war on both sides, to include the Choctaw who kept between 5000 and 6000 slaves themselves. Over 80,000 African Americans (slave and free) either fought, or supported the CSA. So making fun of those losers in the war, that is probably not as cool as making fun of the horrible ideas they stood for. Making fun of the flag, and what it stood for, sure,(especially when it was appropriated for racist hate) that makes sense, but to make fun of people. Maybe it is the same concept we see today, support the individual soldiers, but not the war...
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googledad
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That is ironic, considering almost 30K natives fought in the war on both sides, to include the Choctaw who kept between 5000 and 6000 slaves themselves.
>>>>>>>> You mean Spinner can't criticize the South becuae natives fought ?
Wow .
Over 80,000 African Americans (slave and free) either fought, or supported the CSA.
>>>>>>>>>> Disputed .
civilwargazette.wordpress.com/2008/03/13/did-blacks-fight-in-combat-for-the-confederacy/
So making fun of those losers in the war, that is probably not as cool as making fun of the horrible ideas they stood for.
>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Germans should cling to the swastika then .
Maybe it is the same concept we see today, support the individual soldiers, but not the war...
>>>>>>>>> Unless it's Libya .
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Sherron
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"What do you think?"
I think the issue is that your son thinks it's perfectly okay to wear a shirt with the battle flag to school, especially considering the demographic you've mentioned before, and that his father thinks that asking him to take it off is abuse of power.
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Redlegg
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Sure he can, so can you, it is just ironic who the losers of the war actually are...
I am not sure anyone who support clinging to a swastika, or anyone who supports the use of the confederate battle flag. The point was that the symbol on the shirt was not the flag of the CSA, and it was inappropriate, and I think he should support the principals decision.
Or any war......
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Gecko
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What do you think?
---> I think you should pick your battles...and this isn't one of them.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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Runswithscissors
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That's nice and bless your heart......
Something us Southerners understand.....
BAER
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finz
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[quote] I ask what policy of the school it violates. I am told it violates the policy of "no suggestive images". I say its not suggestive. The book says if there is any question, the Principal decides. Principal says no go.
[/quote]
I have no issue with the school having a policy that says "no clothing with images of guns" That sounds appropriate.
I do think this is a sign your son's chool should have a MUCH more specific polcy. Kids (and their parents) should have a clear idea of what is acceptable or not. I think the policy should be "no suggestive images, such as, but not limited to....pics of guns, swear words, sexual references, etc"
Our school's clothing policy includes "no curse words" My 17 yo was pissed that I wouldn't let him wear his "WTF" with small letters underneath that said "what the frak" His arguement was that it doesn't actually say a curse word in English.....he doesn't think Colonial Fleet lingo counts. I LOVE that shirt. I purchased it for him. I think it's funny. I'm still not letting him wear it to school. I think if you have to debate whether or not it's proper, it's not, I'm erring on the side of caution.
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