gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30206
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Adding, ANYTHING this guy does is considered evidence of guilt. Lets look at the time line:
Wife disappears. Media crawls all over him. They say he should have gotten ther kids out of there. He moves to Washington to get the kids out of there. They say he ran to his Dad's. In the search of his Dad's, they find Dad's kiddie p0rn. Dad is arrested. Josh refuses to make bail for him and cuts all contact. He is told he needs to move out of Dads house, because he cannot see the kids there. So he rents ANOTHER house and puts up some pictures, amking it a loving home to see the kids in. Because he lives in UTAH, most of his stuff is there or in storage. They say it is a sham house, because most of his STUFF isn't there.
Now CONSIDER this. He was told he HAD to get another residence to see the kids in, and is now being criticized because he got another house to see the kids in.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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LexieBelle
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Reged: 11/07/10
Posts: 3680
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We have differing opinions.. it's fine. As I said,I'll be interested to see what the end result is, if there ever is one.
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ssmom79
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Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 7784
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Eh. I'd say the investigation is definitely tainted with the murder/suicide. I still believe he wasn't 'driven' to do it by the investigation surrounding his wife's disappearance. As far as his wife's disappearance or murder, I'm going to hold judgement in that area.
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annieo
veteran
Reged: 07/07/10
Posts: 1410
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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Any thoughts I may have that he was driven to PLAN the murder-suicide ended when he used a HATCHET on his innocent little boys and poured ACCELERANT on them, apparently blowing them up wasn't enough to satisfy him he had to use CRUELTY.
AND I do not buy he was driven by the media - look at this OWN words where he says he is not a lesser person and he is resilient, which according to him was why the investigation into his wife's disappearance was difficult for law enforcement.
The "sham" house is (to me) a grasp - Josh did do what I believe a parent wanting his children back would do in order to get them back - he made a home for them - whether is had every little thing a home needed - that would be different for every person. Many people do not have tv's yet it is the "norm" to have at least one tv.
I do not have pictures on my children on the walls because I lot them in a fire - I do have current ones of my 10 year old but only the last two years and those are in frames sitting on a poorly built shelving unit. We lost EVERYTHING and my insurance at the time was actual cash value NOT replacement value so I could not replace everything, there was only 50,000 to cover everything in the home and garage and my husbands tools were half of that 50,000 to replace and we HAD to replace those - so I do not have all the nicer things I spent years collecting and it su@ked a lot because we had finally bought new furniture and *POOF* all gone. My fil took care of the insurance for interior belongings and lets just say he failed us but at least we got something. We rebuilt the home on a much smaller scale and tried to get things as needed to fill it up but that takes a LONG time. Anyway he may just not have had time, resources, or know how to make a home "homey" My husband wouldn't know how I don't think he would really even care if there were pictures on the walls or more then a few dishes in the cupboard....
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30206
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"Any thoughts I may have that he was driven to PLAN the murder-suicide ended when he used a HATCHET on his innocent little boys and poured ACCELERANT on them, apparently blowing them up wasn't enough to satisfy him he had to use CRUELTY."
Actually, they said the hatchet blows most likely rendered them unconcious, thus they didn't feel the fire. But that is moot. So what if he spent a day or three planning it? Why does that mean he didn't "snap"?
"look at this OWN words where he says he is not a lesser person and he is resilient"
Even the strongest person has a breaking point. He has been hounded for 3 years about the missing wife, of which there is NO evidence he did anything, then he found out his Dad was a pervert, then they took his kids, and repeatedly dangled the carrot on front of him and pulled it away.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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LexieBelle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/10
Posts: 3680
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I will say, I can see where parents can snap and kill their kids due to the KIDS THEMSELVES. THAT I could see. But I can never EVER see someone from OUTSIDE forces then taking the impact of those forces and punishing their kids for those forces. Sorry, just can't mentally get there.
And it still goes back to a root flaw in this dude's personality. So fine, the media pushes you, the law pushes you, you go after THEM or some representation of them but to go after the thing you are supposedly fighting FOR? Nope, doesn't make sense and again, it goes to an INHERENTLY FLAWED PSYCHOLOGICAL PROFILE. There's just no way around that Gr8Dad. Whatever you say, however you try to justify it or explain it, the fact remains that for someone (male OR female) to go after/kill the thing they supposedly are fighting FOR is a clear sign of an inherently messed up thought process. And no, it's not a "snap". It's an INHERENT problem. And I'd be willing to bet there's not a psychologist/psychiatrist that would disagree with me. What this guy did is CLASSIC from a psychological standpoint. It's a certain profile and it is what it is. He didn't "snap". No way. I don't buy that for the fractioniest fraction of a second. EVERYTHING has been deliberately planned, calculated and PLAYED. No snapping involved whatsoever.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30206
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So he is completely crazy with a flaw psyche, but he deliberately did it and planned it, meaning he is NOT crazy with a flawed psyche. Pick a side sweetie, you can't have it both ways.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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annieo
veteran
Reged: 07/07/10
Posts: 1410
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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Having a flawed psyche does NOT mean you are crazy if that were true do you know how many crazies would be running around - oh half the population or so.
Mental illness does not equate crazy. Are some with mental illness or a flawed psyche crazy - sure but not everyone who is mentally ill is crazy - look at bipolar there are highs and lows but if you have bipolar it doesn't mean you are crazy; same with depression, PTSD etc...
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30206
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Well, with NO history of crazy actions, one act indicates that there was an external force causing it. Like spending three years under a microscope without ANY evidence. Like having your kids taken with no evidence.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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elliesmom
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Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 8835
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You do not have the facts straight.
The kiddie p0rn was recently discovered on Josh Powells computer taken from his home (that he shared with his wife in Utah). It was an animation depicting incestuous sex between an adult and a child. That is the full info on that. A few days before the most recent CPS hearing the court in Utah agreed to allow Washington to view the evidence. It was after viewing that material the judge (who was most likely going to return the kids prior to this evidence) decided to order a psychosexual evaluation.
He flat out would have failed that eval unless somehow the items weren't his. The evaluation includes a medical evaluation measuring your arousal to certain stimuli - like kids, incest, etc. And he knew it. I am sure he was scared shytless his little private predilection was about to be very public. So he killed his kids and himself. This wasn't about his desperation for his kids.
I don't think the system failed here. It did exactly what it was supposed to do. Some people are just so determined to do evil, we can't stop them without infringing upon the rights of the rest of us.
The only thing possibly we can learn from this? Perhaps plainclothes police officers instead of social workers should supervise visits. Because - what the heck is a social worker going to if someone decides to do something? May not have made a difference in this case, but this isn't the first time things have occurred (usually kidnapping) during a supervised visit.
It is also unfair to say Utah has no evidence against him. All they have said is that they don't have enough. Given that it took a court order to release the kiddie p0rn they found 2 years ago - I'd say they are playing it pretty close to the vest. They probably think that her body will turn up eventually and the last thing anyone wants is her body to turn up with conclusive evidence and he was already acquitted.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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