Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2015
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[quote]No he's not, he has a court order that binds the two of them to the order. You know, the whole contempt thing. They are bound to the order, and while the IRS may not side with him, family court will and she will be the one that is SOL when she is paying punitive damages and money owed to him.
I would love for someone to go in on a contempt charge regarding taxes and claiming the children and tell the judge he/she should brush up on IRS rules and federal law and the whole "you can't tell me anything because publication x,y,z says I can"...uh huh that will go over FABULOUSLY. [/quote]
Actually, and as an accountant I do know a little something about this, the state court CANNOT force the IRS to accept the state courts definition of who qualifies for HOH and EIC. That goes STRICTLY by the IRS regulations. Period.
And if the mother had the most overnights, then he simply ISN'T qualified to claim HOH or EIC. Period. There is no debate.
In order for him to be able to get the court to order the mother to amend her tax return (keep in mind that she did NOT claim the exemption or child tax credit per what he posted) he's going to have to PROVE that he actually MET THE QUALIFICATIONS. Because once the mother provides PROOF of the IRS regulations that show he was not qualified (should she have had more overnights, which he didn't answer)to file for either HOH or EIC she will be able to prove that he did NOT suffer any financial hardship by claiming what she was qualified for and he was not. I seriously doubt a court is going to hold her in contempt for claiming something that he wasn't qualifed to claim, should she have had more overnights. In other words, he got ALL the exemptions and credits for the kid that he was qualified for per the court order. And if they did, all she has to do is contact the IRS and tell them that the kid was with her the most overnights. Guess who won't be able to claim EIC or HOH per the IRS?
You can debate this all you want, but the IRS is crystal clear in who qualifes for EIC and HOH. And the IRS doesn't care what the state courts order. And if the father does not qualify to claim EIC or HOH, then the father got all of the tax benefit from the kid that he was qualified for.
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Debi
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/03/05
Posts: 7136
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Goodmom is right on this one. The family courts don't have jurisdiction over the IRS. They can order that one parent is able to claim all credits and deductions on odd or even years, however the parent still has to qualify.
My x is able to take the child credit on his years but due to income doesn't qualify for the EIC ever. I make sure that I have the kids a couple more nights than he does so that I can claim it. There is nothing the courts can do. They can't rule that I can't claim it if I meet the criteria just because my x doesn't and it was his year to get the child tax credit.
It wasn't established by the OP if he had the most overnights or if mom did.
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When we were together, you said you'd die for me. Now, I think it's time you kept your promise.
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Miranda
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
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Actually, and as an accountant I do know a little something about this, the state court CANNOT force the IRS to accept the state courts definition of who qualifies for HOH and EIC. That goes STRICTLY by the IRS regulations. Period.
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No one said anything about the state court forcing the IRS to do anything. Family court can in fact force people under its jurisdiction, and it can also find those that violate court orders in contempt and fine them and order them to pay the other person they wronged. It happens all. the. time. LOL
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
Edited by Miranda (02/17/12 06:36 AM)
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Miranda
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
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The family courts don't have jurisdiction over the IRS. They can order that one parent is able to claim all credits and deductions on odd or even years,
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Debi that is exactly what I am saying.
Goodmom threw in the notion of state courts forcing federal governments to do things for effect. We all know this, as the majority of us have been dealing with this for years.
And of course you have to qualify for ANY deduction or credit you want to take.
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
Edited by Miranda (02/17/12 06:35 AM)
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Miranda
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
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I will also add that is DANGEROUS for anyone to follow advice of a person that says "Who cares what your court order says, the IRS will allow you to do this/says this." Risky.
We are all bound by the confines of our court orders and the majority of court orders dictate who can claim the children as tax exemptions for even or odd years. Some even have stipulations with regards to claiming the children.
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13.1...because I am only half crazy!
Edited by Miranda (02/17/12 07:07 AM)
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LexieBelle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/10
Posts: 3680
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Actually, I believe goodmom IS correct. If you read the fine print on any agreement etc, it'll say in there that it's all valid AS LONG AS nothing contained within the document violates another law.
Sooooo, I believe, although it's rarely done or you don't hear about it, you COULD "violate" your court order in terms of claiming which children in what year etc AS LONG AS it followed IRS guidelines. So for example, if you can prove child lived with you x percentage of the time, thereby qualifying you for 'y' claiming of said child you COULD.
In the VAST VAST majority of cases, people AGREE to give someone a deduction that they aren't REALLY qualified to have. If you elected to take BACK that deduction, as long as you met IRS guidelines? You could. Again, that's what I believe/understand to be true.
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2015
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[quote]No one said anything about the state court forcing the IRS to do anything. Family court can in fact force people under its jurisdiction, and it can also find those that violate court orders in contempt and fine them and order them to pay the other person they wronged. It happens all. the. time. LOL [/quote]
When. there. is. a. financial. loss. because. of. the. other. person's. actions.
In this case, if the mother had the most overnights, then father is not qualified and suffered NO FINANCIAL harm by the mother rightfully claiming the filing status and the EIC.
Now let's get to what the OP stated the order said:
"our divorce decree states that I have the right to claim any and all exemtion on taxes for 2011"
Let's clear up a misconception that some people seem to have when it comes to exemptions, filing status and EIC.
They are not the same. Any and all EXEMPTIONS means just that. Any and all EXEMPTIONS.
HOH is NOT an exemption. It is a filing status that is defined by the IRS, not the state court.
EIC is NOT an exemption. It is an earned income CREDIT of which the IRS determines what the qualifications are for this. Not the state courts.
The only reason why the child tax credit goes to the person who claims the exemptions for the child is because the IRS has stated that it follows the exemption, where the child lives has no bearing on this.
If the mother had the most overnights, she would not be in contempt of court as she did not violate the court order. She didn't claim the exemption. She filed the way she is qualified to file. And if the OP doesn't like that, then he should make sure that on the years that he claims the kid, he has the most overnights.
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Goodmom
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/17/07
Posts: 2015
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[quote]I will also add that is DANGEROUS for anyone to follow advice of a person that says "Who cares what your court order says, the IRS will allow you to do this/says this." Risky.
We are all bound by the confines of our court orders and the majority of court orders dictate who can claim the children as tax exemptions for even or odd years. Some even have stipulations with regards to claiming the children.
[/quote]
It also helps to recognize that exemptions, filing status and EIC are the not the same thing.
Like the OP, and you, appear to think. As I stated before, the OP got lucky if the mother actually had the most overnights. And he better hope that she doesn't realize that she didn't have to file an amended return, because she can correct that.
And she would not be in contempt of court for the simple reason that he got ALL EXEMPTIONS.
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Debi
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/03/05
Posts: 7136
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We never got an answer from the OP on who had the most overnights, so we don't really know who qualified for the EIC.
What Goodmom is saying is that IF BM had the one extra over night then she had every right to claim the EIC because BD couldn't. In that case it doesn't matter if it's an odd year and she claims the EIC because he wouldn't have had the right to it no matter what the CO says. She didn't claim the deduction or the child tax credit.
Now IF he had the extra overnight then he is definitely in the right and should have done exactly what he did. Yes, we all know that we have to abide by the CO when it comes to who claims which year and we can be held in contempt if we take the deductions and credits when we are not entitled to them. We also know that if we are not entitled to them we can't take them. In that case the other parent CAN and there is no contempt.
The right answer here hinges on one day.
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When we were together, you said you'd die for me. Now, I think it's time you kept your promise.
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SamsDad
journeyman
Reged: 04/29/10
Posts: 79
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Actually you were all wrong. All the IRS needed was the copy of the single page that stated which year I was to get the exemptions in.
No questions asked, when they saw that it was my year (no need to count up the overnights or anything) they gave it to me and sent her a notice to re-pay.
...and GOODMOM, as an accountant you should maybe brush up on your IRS info, because as long as you have a court order from your divorce decree stating that you are alternating years claiming exemptions (EIC included) you do not need to have 51% custody for that year. The IRS will give you the EIC with proof of a court order, you just have to paper file your return. This was told to me by an accountant AND a representative of the IRS...just FYI.
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