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BlueGoldgirl
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Reged: 12/30/06
Posts: 56
Summer Vacation - need guidance
      #780250 - 03/17/12 06:01 PM

Hi ~ Our custody agreement changed recently to 50/50 custody. One week on, one week off. Runs Monday thru drop off at school following Monday. Here is my issue...how do parents with this kind of schedule work out summer vacations? Our judge did not make changes to the previous order as it pertained to summer vacations. That order said both of us could take two non-consecutive vacation weeks in the summer. Those weeks could be attached to our custodial weekends, making a total of nine days. Anything more was prohibited. We have to have our vacation requests in to the other parent by 6/15 of each year. Every year, one parent has priority in vacation requests if there are any conflicts.

My ex has asked for vacation time that starts on my custodial week. So he has the week before, my week and when he comes back, he also starts his own custodial week again - for a total of three weeks. He is taking our dd to Hawaii. She wants to go & I want her to be able to go. But 3 wks is a long time & she does not want to be away from me for that long of a time. My question is - how do other parents with this custodial schedule make it work? Do you exchange time? What do you guys do? I asked my ex three weeks ago if he had any suggestions, and he said he would get back to me. Nada so far. I would love any help you guys can give me.


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Goodmom
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: BlueGoldgirl]
      #780251 - 03/17/12 06:42 PM

Per the court order, unless he agrees to switch weeks, you are out of luck. And unless your court order also allows a dinner midweek, you are also out of luck if he doesn't agree.

And if he decides to go that route, you are, per the court order, allowed to do the same thing he is doing with your vacation and have three weeks in a row and he's out of luck. Maybe once he realizes that works both ways, he will work with you. Personally, I would discuss the issue with him and see if you can come to an agreement about this and if you can't, the next time you go back to court ask that the summer vacation time does not take the place of the other parent's week. Since you are WOWO, vacations can certainly be planned around that. And if something special comes up where either one of you needs longer than a week for the vacation, you can work out something with each other.


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Debi
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: BlueGoldgirl]
      #780263 - 03/17/12 08:50 PM

You could suggest that he let her stay with you right before they leave and right after for a night, and you will do the same when you plan your vacation time. If he is leaving on say, Sunday then maybe she can stay with you Friday night. and if they get back on Saturday she couls stay with you on Sunday night. That would break up the 3 weeks without taking too much away.

Are vacations not addressed in the new order or did that part remain the same? I'd say if vacations aren't addressed then each parent is suppossed to take vacation when they have the kids. That's not always possible though and it's nice if the parents can work together. If it remained the same then you will have the same option when you schedule your vacation.

My x and I have 50/50 with a 5/2 split. We don't have anything in our CO about vacations but have always worked together. My x doesn't usually take one but when I do I always offer his choice of make up time. (usually he doesn't take it though)

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gr8Dad
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: BlueGoldgirl]
      #780266 - 03/17/12 09:52 PM

Three weeks uninterrupted is not unreasonable, and honestly, will be harder on you than it is on her. You get the same thing. You appear to be acting like he is doing this to "get" you, when in reality, he is doing it to take the child on vacation. Go with it, make your own plans, and all will be fine.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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BlueGoldgirl
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: gr8Dad]
      #780286 - 03/18/12 09:23 AM

[quote]Three weeks uninterrupted is not unreasonable, and honestly, will be harder on you than it is on her. You get the same thing. You appear to be acting like he is doing this to "get" you, when in reality, he is doing it to take the child on vacation. Go with it, make your own plans, and all will be fine. [/quote]

First of all, thank you for taking the time to respond. But I have to tell you, I don't feel he has asked for this summer vacation time to "get" me. Nothing in my post indicates that level of paranoia :)

We divorced in 2005. Our dd has never been away from either of us for more than ten days at a time. So yes, three weeks is unreasonable. I am trying to be proactive and work with him. I have reached out to him on our court-ordered communication system and asked if he had any thoughts on how to make this work for both of us. His response four weeks ago was that he would get back to me. Despite two follow-ups from me, he has not responded. And while I do understand that I can do the same thing to him, there are some problems with that. One of the funnier problems is that our dd's summer vacation simply does not last long enough for both parents to take two three-week periods of time. (she only has nine weeks of summer vacation)

Thanks to all for the constructive thoughts...it has given me some good ideas.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: BlueGoldgirl]
      #780292 - 03/18/12 10:52 AM

"Our dd has never been away from either of us for more than ten days at a time. So yes, three weeks is unreasonable."

Most people get 4-6 weeks of summer vacation. You now have 50/50 custody, so three weeks is most definitely NOT unreasonable.

"I am trying to be proactive and work with him. I have reached out to him on our court-ordered communication system and asked if he had any thoughts on how to make this work for both of us."

Okay, now think about this, if you have week on, week off, it is either going to be ONE week, or three weeks, that is the ONLY way it CAN work out.

"One of the funnier problems is that our dd's summer vacation simply does not last long enough for both parents to take two three-week periods of time."

So request the week before his week, or the week AFTER his vacation. That would give you each two weeks of vacation. What you appear to want is for him to only take weeks that he ALREADY gets, which is silly.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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elliesmom
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: BlueGoldgirl]
      #780294 - 03/18/12 11:24 AM

To be blunt - I do think you are being unreasonable. DH has had no less than 6 weeks of uninterrupted summer time since his youngest was 7. Prior to that they had been away from their mother for like, never. They were fine, except for when she would call and harangue them about how sad she was and the dogs/cats were sad and how she bought them a new kitten for when they came home etc. Personally I would be excited about my kid getting to travel to Hawaii, hand them a disposable camera and tell them I want lots of pictures.

Its really unfair to ask your ex to change his plans when he made them within the confines of a legal agreement. But if he is willing you could ASK if it doesn't interfere with his plans to change yours. For example weeks 1,3,5 are yours and 2,4,6 are his. He is taking week 3 for his vacation. He is vacationing weeks 3 & 4 - then ask to take your vacation 1 & 2. If he is vacationing weeks 2 & 3, same thing. Take your vacation weeks 4 & 5. If you already have a vacation planned and its too much trouble to change it - then I guess I would say that if the 3 week problem isn't enough for you to change YOUR plans, why should he?

(Keep in mind a "staycation" is still vacation - taking time just to hang out with your kid is just as much a vacation as a trip to Hawaii)

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Debi
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: gr8Dad]
      #780305 - 03/18/12 02:46 PM

Why is it unfair that he only take vacation on his weeks if she is willing to do the same? They have 50/50 so it's not as if it's the only time he can plan a vacation. Plus no where does it seem as if she has an issue with him taking that time, only wanting to see the child sometime during the 3 weeks.

That said, though it's not what she asked and 3 weeks is a long time. She's not saying it's only a long time for her D to be away from HER but from either of them. I'm sure the child will miss mom during that 3 week period, just like she will miss dad during the 3 week period she's with mom for vacation.

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When we were together, you said you'd die for me. Now, I think it's time you kept your promise.


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Maury
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: Debi]
      #780306 - 03/18/12 03:02 PM

You must review your court order. If the parenting schedule was replaced in its entirety, then there is no vacation schedule presently ordered. That may be a fair interpretation of your present order.

If your order specifically states that any other parenting time provisions not specifically addressed remain in full force and effect, the prior schedule would apply and your ex can take the time being requested.

In the end, it would seem to be a good idea to mediate the issue and seek some clarification. Without more, it appears the schedule is ambiguous.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: Debi]
      #780307 - 03/18/12 03:35 PM

"Why is it unfair that he only take vacation on his weeks if she is willing to do the same?"

Because why would you put in for EXCEPTED vacation time, when you have the child already?

"3 weeks is a long time"

No, its not.

"I'm sure the child will miss mom during that 3 week period, just like she will miss dad during the 3 week period she's with mom for vacation."

I have no doubt the child will miss the other parent. But that is life, and LEARNING to deal with that is part of life's lessons.

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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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gr8Dad
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: BlueGoldgirl]
      #780308 - 03/18/12 04:19 PM

What was the parenting time arrangement before the change? In other words, what did he get before it went to 50/50?

--------------------
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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Goodmom
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: BlueGoldgirl]
      #780312 - 03/18/12 06:27 PM

Another option is to make one of your vacation weeks coincide with the third week (or whichever week they are not away).

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Goodmom
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: gr8Dad]
      #780313 - 03/18/12 06:30 PM

[quote]What was the parenting time arrangement before the change? In other words, what did he get before it went to 50/50? [/quote]

That is irrelevant. And the only reason you are asking is so that you can attack the OP if it wasn't what you think it should have been.

What IS relevant is what the schedule CURRENTLY is.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: Goodmom]
      #780314 - 03/18/12 07:12 PM

No, it is very relevant, especially to HIS mindset. If he got, as she stated, two non consecutive weeks in the summer, but only EOW for the rest of the summer, that means in PAST summers, he got two weeks, she got TEN, so him getting THREE weeks this first summer is not even CLOSE to unreasonable.

"What IS relevant is what the schedule CURRENTLY is."

And if it IS as she says, then he is PERFECTLY right in his request.

--------------------
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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Debi
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: gr8Dad]
      #780316 - 03/18/12 08:05 PM

You're assuming he was the NCP before 50/50 was implemented.

If you have 50/50 placement it's normal to assume you take your vacation when you have the child.

Yes 3 weeks IS a long time. I would not want to be away from my kids for 3 weeks, their dad would not want to be away from them for 3 weeks and they would not want to be away from either of us for 3 weeks. they would however be fine not seeing each other for 3 weeks.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with requesting a bit of time with the child during the week they are not on vacation. True there are plenty of people who do long distance pareting plans. It doesn't sound as if this child has ever done that so it is HUGE deal to her. Not because it's mom she won't see for three weeks, but not seeing either parent for that amount of time.

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When we were together, you said you'd die for me. Now, I think it's time you kept your promise.


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ssmom79
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: BlueGoldgirl]
      #780317 - 03/18/12 08:17 PM

Hi there, I have 50/50 rotating schedule like you. We have done this several ways. At their current ages 15/17, we just carry on for the three weeks.

We have also done a midweek switch up where we shared our own week since we 'took' her week.

We have also changed the whole schedule and switched the weeks off entirely. So in your case he'd have the kids your vacation week, then when he returned, you'd start the next week and 'start over'.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: Debi]
      #780319 - 03/18/12 08:39 PM

"You're assuming he was the NCP before 50/50 was implemented."

No, I am not, I ASKED what his parenting time was before the 50/50. When responding to goodmom, I said "IF" he had that, one could understand the mindset.

"If you have 50/50 placement it's normal to assume you take your vacation when you have the child."

That would depend on the TYPE of 50/50 you have. If you have a 5/2 type, that would mean you couldn't go away for more than 5 days EVER.

"Yes 3 weeks IS a long time. I would not want to be away from my kids for 3 weeks, their dad would not want to be away from them for 3 weeks and they would not want to be away from either of us for 3 weeks. they would however be fine not seeing each other for 3 weeks."

No, it is NOT. MANY MANY of us have to give the ex SIX WEEKS of the summer. So HALF of what MANY MANY people have to give up is NOT that long.

"There is absolutely nothing wrong with requesting a bit of time with the child during the week they are not on vacation."

There is nothing wrong with requesting that you ex smear themselves with Jello and run through the street naked. You can ask for whatever you want.

"It doesn't sound as if this child has ever done that so it is HUGE deal to her."

So at what age IS it okay for a child to LEARN to be away from Mommy or Daddy for three weeks? Tens of THOUSANDS of kids go away to CAMP for longer than that in the summer.

--------------------
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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Debi
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: gr8Dad]
      #780401 - 03/19/12 09:45 PM

No, it is NOT. MANY MANY of us have to give the ex SIX WEEKS of the summer. So HALF of what MANY MANY people have to give up is NOT that long.

However this in NOT one of those situations so keep saying it's NOT a long time as much as you like. I say it IS. And just because there are people with long distance parenting plans it doesn't mean the kids like the arrangements.

At what age is it ok to teach the child they can be away that long? How about when the child is comfortable with it? Most of my my kids are teens and I have never been away from them for 3 weeks and they have no desire to be away from either of their parentsfor that length of time.

I will have to respectfully agree to disagree with you because it's obvious neither of us will change our POV.

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When we were together, you said you'd die for me. Now, I think it's time you kept your promise.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: Debi]
      #780405 - 03/19/12 10:43 PM

"However this in NOT one of those situations so keep saying it's NOT a long time as much as you like. I say it IS. And just because there are people with long distance parenting plans it doesn't mean the kids like the arrangements."

And just because YOU think it is, does not make it so.

"How about when the child is comfortable with it?"

SO your kids NEVER tried something NEW? I mean we do not get "comfortable" with something until we DO it. The thing is, YOU are basing YOUR POV on YOUR feelings alone, while MY POV is based on something that happens to tens of thousands of kids EVERY year, without incident.

--------------------
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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Tweeby
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: BlueGoldgirl]
      #780428 - 03/20/12 06:48 AM

So if you don't want your D gone for that long and it is a planned vacation then have your D fly home. She can fly home alone as an unaccompanied minor or you can buy a round trip ticket to fly back with her. Sounds silly doesn't to disrupt a vacation because a child doesn't want to be away from the other parent for so long.

Since your ex is doing it than you can take 3 weeks either before or after he does.


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Avaya
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: BlueGoldgirl]
      #780493 - 03/20/12 11:50 AM

If custody is one week on, one week off, there is NO way to avoid this scenario. Let the child go, encourage her to have fun and enjoy your time while she's away and plan something to do together upon her return. THIS is the result of divorce that is just part of it.

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Eternity is too long to be wrong.


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Avaya
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: Debi]
      #780495 - 03/20/12 11:54 AM

[quote]If you have 50/50 placement it's normal to assume you take your vacation when you have the child. [/quote]

Which he is doing. The judge awarded the vacation time, he asked for the dates and he's taking his vacation on those dates. :)

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Eternity is too long to be wrong.


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BlueGoldgirl
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: Avaya]
      #780768 - 03/22/12 03:07 PM

Thank you all for responding and sharing your thoughts and experiences. I value them all.

Our previous order was not changed re: summer vacation time. What comes into play that is rather interesting is a section in our order which says that every year, if there is a conflict in vacation time requests, one parent's request prevails over the other. This is an even year, so I am the parent that gets to go on the vacation dates I want if there is a conflict. Next year my ex will have priority. We must have our vacation requests in to each other by 6/15 of every year.

In the past, my ex has used this portion of the clause to "trump me" - as he called it. He waited for me to let him know which vacations dates I wanted, and then he said "No" - those dates conflict with what I want. He would end up not taking our dd on a vacation, but just wanted to ensure that I had to change my plans. You can ask the counselors at the local summer camp where our dd was for her "vacation" week with dad while he worked. It was all about making me change my plans. That was okay once I got used to his pattern. Then in years that I did not have priority, I would just ask for a week that I knew I really did not want. He would do his predictable "you can't have it" and I would gladly take a week that he did not earmark as his. The week I really wanted :)

The math tells me that our dd has nine weeks of vacation. It also tells me that neither of us can have both of our three week periods of time (say if we both request vacation time on the other parent's week) each summer. To head this off I want to work with him.

Dad and dd attend therapy. I reached out to the therapist (with her permission). She said what usually happens is the schedule is adjusted so that it does not happen that either parent has three wks in a row. She said often people take summer out of sequence and adjust according to the vacation schedule, and get back on track in the summer. And before anyone says she does not know what she is talking about...I will just say that she is very well known...and if she can make Britney Spears and Alec Baldwin better parents...she can work wonders. I truly hope we can parent together to make summer great for our daughter.


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gr8Dad
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: BlueGoldgirl]
      #780779 - 03/22/12 06:43 PM

"I reached out to the therapist (with her permission)."

Before going to the child and Dads therapist, did you actually SUGGEST a compromise to Dad and see what he says? Seriously, this can backfire on you.

"She said what usually happens is the schedule is adjusted so that it does not happen that either parent has three wks in a row."

Again, how much summer time did he get in PREVIOUS years?

"She said often people take summer out of sequence and adjust according to the vacation schedule, and get back on track in the summer."

Right, and that requires people to COMPROMISE.

--------------------
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...


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BlueGoldgirl
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: gr8Dad]
      #786715 - 06/12/12 09:53 AM

You asked if I communicated with dad first before going to therapist. I did. Three year ago I asked the court if we could use OFW (Our Family Wizard) for communications. I presented evidence showing my dd's dad was pretty dang bad at communicating. The court agreed. We use OFW. I sent dad three OFW msgs. regarding how to work out summer vacation schedules. No response. LOL - at least it's documented on OFW now.

What were his previous summer vacations periods of time like? He was given the same amount of vacation time as I was. Two one-week periods of time. When our dd turned ten yrs. old, we were allowed to attach the vacation period to our weekend, thus making it nine day periods of time.

COMPROMISE you say. And I agree 100% But that requires communication and co-parenting. Something that dad is lacking in.


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ssmom79
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: BlueGoldgirl]
      #786719 - 06/12/12 11:09 AM

Can you give him the three weeks of summer he requested and then you take the following three weeks after he returns?

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BlueGoldgirl
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Re: Summer Vacation - need guidance [Re: ssmom79]
      #786726 - 06/12/12 02:05 PM

[quote]Can you give him the three weeks of summer he requested and then you take the following three weeks after he returns? [/quote]

I can't, as he has the 4th of July Holiday this summer...and our order specifies that it runs from 7/3 - 7/6. Following the suggestions of other wise posters, I have just decided to take a vacation week when our dd comes home from Hawaii. My vacation week will take place during his normal custodial time. LOL - before you know it summer will be over for us, we go back to school in mid-August.


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