gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30195
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[censored]://ca.news.[censored].com/combative-obama-warns-supreme-court-health-law-192629533.html
Good call, telling the court they should make an "unprecedented" move of overturning the Health care law.
Unprecedented!?! The Supreme court overturns a law on average of every 16 months.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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googledad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/31/05
Posts: 10207
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Ignoring their own precedents should be embarrassing enough .
So much for conservatives disliking " activist " judges .
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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Maury
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 8146
Loc: This Asylum --->
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It would be a relatively unprecedented restriction on the scope of the Commerce Clause and inmvoking that clause to make legislation affecting the Sates.
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googledad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/31/05
Posts: 10207
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Pretty funny , growing marijuana for self-use in CA invokes the Commerce Clause according to the activists like Thomas & Scalia but something ( health care )that is 18% of the US economy might not .
Maybe they'll remember that the mandate was originally a CONSERVATIVE idea .
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19802
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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Ruth Bader made the comment (paraphrased) that people need to be forced to participate in the market.
My thought when I read that was...where does it end?
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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googledad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/31/05
Posts: 10207
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How bout when we join the rest of the civilized world and enact some form of " single payer " ?
Wanna continue the current employement based , free market health insurance system we have ? Then you need to MANDATE everyone have insurance to discourage " free riders " who only buy in once they're sick and need insurance .
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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gr8Dad
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Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30195
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Health care is NOT A RIGHT!
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19802
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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Wanna continue the current employement based, free market health insurance system we have? Then you need to MANDATE everyone have insurance to discourage "free riders" who only buy in once they're sick and need insurance.
---> Does that mean that everyone who doesn't have auto insurance is a 'free rider'? How about folks who don't homeowner's/renter's insurance? Or dental insurance? Vision insurance? Pet insurance? Cell Phone insurance and so on an so forth? Are they all 'free riders' too?
---> Do you honestly think that the cost of health insurance is going to go down because it's mandated? If so, you are seriously deluding yourself. One of the supposed benefits of mandating auto insurance was that it was supposed to lower the cost of auto insurance because a 'loss' would be spread out among the many instead of the few. Instead, rates went UP across the board because 1) insurance companies KNEW that you couldn't [legally] drive your vehicle without insurance and if you got caught, they could double the rates and 2) more insured means more payouts. And it is exactly what will happen if medical insurance is mandated.
---> It wasn't the 'free riders' as you call them, that caused the high cost of medical insurance...it's our 'sue happy' society. And medical costs have become outrageous, NOT because of the folks who pay their medical bills last, but because 1) hospitals discovered they could get away with charge $10.00 for an aspirin and $20.00 for a band-aid and 2) because of our 'sue happy' society raising the rates of malpractice insurance.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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googledad
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Reged: 12/31/05
Posts: 10207
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Health care is NOT A RIGHT!
>>>>>>>> Who said it was ?
I have an idea Mr " Bytch About Deficits & Government Spending " , let's KEEP the exact same antiquated system , that NO OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED NATION has , that results in HUGE NUMBERS of people WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE and COSTS MORE than ANY OTHER system cuz you have your panties in a bunch .
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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googledad
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Posts: 10207
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Does that mean that everyone who doesn't have auto insurance is a 'free rider'?
>>>>>>>> Anyone who DRIVES , YES . That's why car insurance is MANDATED at the state level . Then again car accidents aren't 18% of GDP .
How about folks who don't homeowner's/renter's insurance? Or dental insurance? Vision insurance? Pet insurance? Cell Phone insurance and so on an so forth? Are they all 'free riders' too?
>>>>>>>>> see above .
Do you honestly think that the cost of health insurance is going to go down because it's mandated?
>>>>>>>>> Has it gone down when it WASN'T ?
That's right , it isn't NOW . NOT YET .
If so, you are seriously deluding yourself. One of the supposed benefits of mandating auto insurance was that it was supposed to lower the cost of auto insurance because a 'loss' would be spread out among the many instead of the few. Instead, rates went UP across the board because 1) insurance companies KNEW that you couldn't [legally] drive your vehicle without insurance and if you got caught, they could double the rates and 2) more insured means more payouts.
>>>>>>>> Maybe you can show some PROOF auto insurance rates are raising at 2-3 TIMES the cost of inflation like health insurance .
It wasn't the 'free riders' as you call them, that caused the high cost of medical insurance...it's our 'sue happy' society. And medical costs have become outrageous, NOT because of the folks who pay their medical bills last, but because 1) hospitals discovered they could get away with charge $10.00 for an aspirin and $20.00 for a band-aid and 2) because of our 'sue happy' society raising the rates of malpractice insurance.
>>>>>>>>> A fantasy .
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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Gecko
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 19802
Loc: Third rock from the sun
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Anyone who DRIVES, YES. That's why car insurance is MANDATED at the state level.
---> Actually, it's only required if you own a vehicle that you are putting on the road.
see above.
---> And who is going to pay for all of this? If I can't afford health insurance, how am I going to afford a mandate for homeowner's/renter's insurance...and dental insurance and vision insurance and pet insurance and cell phone insurance and whatever else kind of 'insurance' you are going to mandate? By the time I pay for all this 'insurance'...I won't be able to afford to rent a cardboard box under some bridge or tie to cans together with a string!
Has it gone down when it WASN'T?
---> Just answer the question. Oh...that's right, you can't because you know that the cost is NOT going to go down.
Maybe you can show some PROOF auto insurance rates are raising at 2-3 TIMES the cost of inflation like health insurance.
---> If you can't address the discussion then just say so.
A fantasy.
---> So you're saying that 'sue happy' people haven't caused a rise in insurance rates? Or that $10.00 for an aspirin and $20.00 for a band-aid is reasonable?
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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googledad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/31/05
Posts: 10207
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Actually, it's only required if you own a vehicle that you are putting on the road.
>>>>>>> Yeah, there's a SIGNIFICANT difference between insuring DRIVERS and CARS .
And who is going to pay for all of this? If I can't afford health insurance, how am I going to afford a mandate for homeowner's/renter's insurance...and dental insurance and vision insurance and pet insurance and cell phone insurance and whatever else kind of 'insurance' you are going to mandate? By the time I pay for all this 'insurance'...I won't be able to afford to rent a cardboard box under some bridge or tie to cans together with a string!
>>>>>>>> And just who is MANDATING all that ?
That's right , NO ONE .
Just answer the question. Oh...that's right, you can't because you know that the cost is NOT going to go down.
>>>>>>>> What question ? Health insurance HAS NEVER gone down . Could you PLEASE explain why you think the ACA was meant to lower premiums for EVERYONE ?
I get it , it has " affordable " in the name .
Suprise , the objective of the law is to insure as many people as possible for as little as possible .
There is conjecture that having more people in the market will eventually lower costs , ya know SPREADING RISK . Then again SINGLE PAYER is PROVEN to lower costs .
If you can't address the discussion then just say so.
>>>>>>> Sorta like comparing CAR INSURANCE & HEALTH INSURANCE .
So you're saying that 'sue happy' people haven't caused a rise in insurance rates?
>>>>>>>> Minimally .It doesn't explain 10%+ yearly increases in premiums .
Or that $10.00 for an aspirin and $20.00 for a band-aid is reasonable?
>>>>>>>> That's what happens when SOME PEOPLE don't pay for their care , other's that do PAY MORE .
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30195
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">>>>>>> Yeah, there's a SIGNIFICANT difference between insuring DRIVERS and CARS ."
Yep, because you can choose to NOT be a driver and choose to NOT have a car. Under the health insurance mandate, you CANNOT choose to NOT have health insurance.
">>>>>>>> And just who is MANDATING all that ?
That's right , NO ONE ."
Of course, because NO ONE would mandate pet insurance, right? Of course, because NO ONE would mandate HEALTH insurance, right...oops.
"Could you PLEASE explain why you think the ACA was meant to lower premiums for EVERYONE ?"
So why is it raising premiums for those of us who are ALREADY PAYING PREMIUMS? My co-pays went up 50% and my premiums went up 18% this year...and the damn thing isn't even fully IMPLEMENTED yet.
Here is the deal and it is IRREFUTABLE. If you CANNOT afford premiums NOW, the ONLY way you are going to afford premiums if if they are LOWER, and the ONLY way to lower premiums for SOME is to RAISE premiums on others.
"Then again SINGLE PAYER is PROVEN to lower costs ."
AND care, don't forget that.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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googledad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/31/05
Posts: 10207
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Yep, because you can choose to NOT be a driver and choose to NOT have a car. Under the health insurance mandate, you CANNOT choose to NOT have health insurance.
>>>>>>> Of course ANYONE can , by paying a fine/tax . DUH . Sorta like driving an UNINSURED CAR .
Of course, because NO ONE would mandate pet insurance, right? Of course, because NO ONE would mandate HEALTH insurance, right...oops.
>>>>>>>>> Meanwhile Repugs want to get rid of Social Security and MANDATE private retirement accounts . Ooops , the mandate was THIR IDEA .
When's Mitt gonna mandate broccoli in Mass ?
So why is it raising premiums for those of us who are ALREADY PAYING PREMIUMS?
>>>>>>>>>> Funny , premiums have risen EVERY YEAR but now it's the ACA's fault . What made them rise before ?
Here is the deal and it is IRREFUTABLE. If you CANNOT afford premiums NOW, the ONLY way you are going to afford premiums if if they are LOWER, and the ONLY way to lower premiums for SOME is to RAISE premiums on others.
>>>>>>>>> Irrefutable my ass . Do you know why group policies are less expensive than individual ones ?
"Then again SINGLE PAYER is PROVEN to lower costs ."
AND care, don't forget that.
>>>>>>>>. Yup , those damn single payer countries with their longer life expectancy .
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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