english7
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I know I'm procrastinating while that stack of papers stares at me, but I'd like to know what you folks think of Hilary Rosen's comments about Ann Romney and Mitt's understanding of women's struggles:
" What you have is Mitt Romney running around the country saying, well, you know, my wife tells me that what women really care about are economic issues. And when I listen to my wife, that's what I'm hearing.
Guess what, his wife has actually never worked a day in her life. She's never really dealt with the kinds of economic issues that a majority of the women in this country are facing in terms of how do we feed our kids, how do we send them to school and how do we — why do we worry about their future?"
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elliesmom
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If she was talking about something else (like workman's comp) I could see how the comparison would be made. But to say that I don't understand economic issues because I don't work outside the home - I find that a tad insulting. For me - and most of the SAH spouses I know - WE are the ones balancing the checkbook and doing the purchasing and financial planning - because we are the ones the most free time. *I* am the one doing the planning for sending my SKs to college, choosing where we live based on what we can afford with all that in mind, etc. So - part of me wants to kneejerk and say - F you Hilary Rosen.
I am sure others would argue that they are wealthy enough to not worry about that stuff and hire someone to do the rest, but I don't know that has always been the case and what goes on in their home.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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LexieBelle
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I tend to agree with the comments about his wife. The reality is likely that someone in her position? Isn't really worried where the next daycare provider payment is coming from, or if there'll be enough money for diapers. You know?
Kinda galls me to see some bytch in a $1000 suit or dress opining about how tough women have it ;) Even if her husband walked out on her? She'd be a mighty rich bytch and STILL wouldn't have a clue.
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elliesmom
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But all of those things have nothing to do with her being a SAHM, and everything to do with her being wealthy. If the comment had been targeted such as someone as wealthy as she is cannot possibly know what concern about the economy is - I wouldn't have the F you sentiment. But I suspect it wasn't because both the commenter and person she supports - are also wealthy enough to know how they will afford diapers, daycare, etc.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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english7
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At first I thought it impossible that Ann Romney could understand the economic concerns of so many working (outside the home plus in) mothers. She and Mitt are, admittedly and with no apology, members of the elite.
But maybe she could imagine? Maybe. Rosen had a good point but does a mother have to have direct experience with economic hardship to understand how important it is to so many? Has she or Mitt worked with those who struggle?
This matters to me because I'll be voting for one guy or the other.
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Char9
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It's insulting to the point of stupidity. She never worked, never had to work, and likely NEVER worked with those who struggled, women who were single parents, working outside the home to provide for their kids. While I never had kids, I have ALWAYS worked. Would NEVER expect H or anyone else for that matter to support my sorry azz. I am willing and able to work thank you very much. The Romney's are clueless and I definitely will not vote for him.
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elliesmom
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I guess for me - I think someone - mom or dad - whenever possible should stay home with the kids. I value that. I respect anyone who makes the sacrifice for that to happen.
It bothers me when people treat it like it isn't a sacrifice. I am no martyr - I made this choice. But - it is hard to never have a break, to work your ass off and have it never matter in the sense of a raving performance review or more money coming in. As someone who was at the top of their class, went and became an engineer, and accustomed to accolades in exchange for hard work - that is hard to live without. And i don't expect anyone to feel sorry for - this was totally my choice, it would be nice if others didn't belittle what I do as "not real work" or me as "lazy."
I have done both. Going to work every day would be more gratifying and easier. The logistics would be more difficult with kids (daycare, working late, kids sick, etc.) and I have nothing but the highest respect for single parents who have to do ALL of it alone, but the workload at work...well lets just say I miss it.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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M5M5
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So, what are you trying to say? That SAHMs are lazy and do not work? Sorry...but being a SAHM is no walk in the park...especially with multiple kids...it's a very hard job.
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Arden
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It is a very hard job. I have done both. I won't try to get into which one is harder because I think it is a apple and orange comparison.
I will say that when I stayed home and the kids were little there was never was a clock out button, that job never ended.
Now my kids are older and independent, all except one. I still do everything I did while I was at home with a job to boot. However and this pertains to me only, I am not speaking for anyone else. My job gives me a bit of relief. I like getting out everyday and having adult interaction. Granted I have also surrounded myself by 1700 teenagers everyday but, I love it.
I also realize I have to comfort of having a husband, that is the majority bread winner and backup at home. I don't have it all on my shoulders, which can make things 1000X more stressful. I did it myself after my divorce so I know what it is like.
It just bothers me see a SAHP being dismissed or made to feel like they are lazy and what they do isn't important. Or a working parent treated like they are uninvolved and don't care about family.
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Arden
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I deleted my first post because it wasn't finished. I must have hit the send button somehow. ???
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LexieBelle
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Have to say I'm doubly biased against the woman, Romney that is. There's all this talk of how she's "battled MS". Ohhh okayyyyy. Look, the woman OBVIOUSLY has a regressive-remitting form of the disease. She HASN'T "worked" per se. She can AFFORD the best care/treatment, etc. But yet they go on an on in these things about how she's "battled" MS. She has at best a VERY mild form. I've seen people who have TRULY "battled" MS. The literally legally blind lady with 3 inch thick glasses trying to raise her kids with a deadbeat ex-husband. The woman (also with kids) laying in a hospital bed in her living room spelling out words on a ouija board with a straw between her teeth. My own grandmother, who never got out of bed on her own from the age of 56 til her death at 80. THOSE people BATTLED multiple sclerosis. Ann Romney? I guarantee you isn't "battling" the disease. She's very LUCKY to have a MILD form and be rich enough to not have to push the disease.
So for her to allow those misconceptions about her "battle" with MS? Along with her obvious lack of direct knowledge of a truly SAHM? Makes her pretty worthless in my eyes.
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english7
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Wow. Thanks for that. I don't know much about MS, so I assumed Mrs. Romney must have been through a lot in that respect. What I know is that my dentist had it, and in a short time, lost his career and was in a wheelchair. His wife had to go back to school to get a nursing degree so she could take care of him and their children.
I watched Mrs. Romney speak as she introduced her husband to a group of NRA people today. She was lovely, articulate and passionate.
If it's hard for me, who keeps up with this stuff, to discern what's genuine from not, how can others do it?
I was a SAHM until my kids were in school. I also took care of others' children in my home while I was home. Arden and others are right. It's very hard, especially when you have to sacrifice, give up a second car, eating out, buying gifts, etc. But my children have said repeatedly that they think they had a charmed childhood.
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stepmom333
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Mitt's adjusted gross is almost at 21 MILLION dollars for 2011(all investments.) He pays 15.4% in both fed and state. His WAGES are ZERO.
Most AVERAGE wage earners pay 21.3%
Mitt also does not endorse the Buffett tax rule. Go figure. Obama does
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spinnerdegrassi
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Lol...like Mitt really listens to what his wife says about anything important.
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english7
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I don't know who you are, but I wish you would go away.
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SweetLight
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A friend posted this to FB, and I loved it:
"It amazes me that people are intent on disliking Mitt Romney for being successful...gee, wouldn't i want someone who had a history of successful ventures taking on the venture of our country? Don't we want someone who knows how to make money and create jobs doing the same thing for us? Don't we all wish we were so "out of touch" that we weren't worried about our finances any more? I can only hope that the American people stand back and look at the choices we have before us, and recognize that someone who has a history of success would, most likely, spell success for our country. It seems so logical, and yet people still just don't get it."
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LexieBelle
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No problem. My mother has had regressive remitting MS since I was born. In a wheelchair 3 different periods in the 70s. First attack in 1969. I came home from the hospital when I was born, she didn't for 6 months.
My PATERNAL grandmother had HER attack in 1966 or so, but was using a cane at my patents wedding in 65. I never saw my grandmother not in a hospital bed, or a wheelchair. My grandfather was her full time, caretaker and nurse.
So, been around it in my 2 closest female relatives for almost 43 years. I've had tests done in my 20's since I've been symptomatic myself. I refuse to have the definitive ear test bc I have inner ear problems and the test WILL trigger them. I still have signs.. I use biofeedback to combat things my mother and I refer to as the shift (world shifting rapidly sideways) and the drop (putting your foot down and feeling like the world dropped out from under you).
Anyway, that's my experience.
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Redlegg
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" What you have is Mitt Romney running around the country saying, well, you know, my wife tells me that what women really care about are economic issues. And when I listen to my wife, that's what I'm hearing.
So is she lying, are women not telling her this, is she too stupid to actually know what they are telling her, and cannot get it right when she tells him. How does anything she has done in her life, or has not done qualify/disqualify her to listen, and to tell her husband. Do women care about economic issues, or do they not ? Because it would seem if she that is what she said she is hearing. What is it, do they care, or do they not care.....
I will assume that any candidate, or their wife will not be speaking on any issue, unless they have been through it. Military families and pay, and race issues for any race they are not a part of, single parents, the only religions they can talk about are Black liberation Theology, and the Mormon Church, The Obamas cannot speak about raising sons, and the Romneys can't speak about raising daughters. What a joke, his wife is too stupid to tell him what she hears, because she was a SAHM. I think he married her, and is not going to appoint her to the treasury. My guess, she did not have to walk to school, 5 miles, barefoot through the snow, uphill both ways either.
"Guess what, his wife has actually never worked a day in her life. She's never really dealt with the kinds of economic issues that a majority of the women in this country are facing in terms of how do we feed our kids, how do we send them to school and how do we — why do we worry about their future?"
Good thing she is listening then....
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spinnerdegrassi
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Not sure why anyone is worried about what Miss or even Mr Romney have to say or do. It's not like he's going to win this election, so people don't need to get jacked up about what might happen.
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Redlegg
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So Hilary Rosen should not have even brought it up in the first place? I don't know, I think they have to attack whatever they can on either side. The fact is the last election was won by 7% or so, and now there is a record. They may be better off going for the throat..
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english7
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"It amazes me that people are intent on disliking Mitt Romney for being successful"
What I'm hearing is that, rightly or wrongly, people don't trust candidates who are "out of touch" with the struggle of average Americans. They are essentially saying that Romney's success came in "silver-spoon" fashion.
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english7
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"I will assume that any candidate, or their wife will not be speaking on any issue, unless they have been through it."
It's not a matter of "speaking," it's a matter of credibility.
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Redlegg
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Credibility in what, hearing words, and relaying them to her husband. The whole issue is that she told him women are concerned about economic issues.
Right here, this:
"What you have is Mitt Romney running around the country saying, well, you know, my wife tells me that what women really care about are economic issues. And when I listen to my wife, that's what I'm hearing."
Are women not concerned about economic issues, is she just too stupid to tell him what she is hearing correctly. This is not policy, not law, it is a simple conversation about what women are concerned about. How is she not credible to pass on what she hears. Not to mention that the woman who said it apologized, the Administration is distancing itself from the statements and saying they are inappropriate. What would make her credible to accurately relay what she hears to her husband? I mean how does her being a SAHP add or take away from her credibility to pass on what she is told.
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english7
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Fair enough. I get your point now. What I took away from his comments is that he is getting his information about what matters to women from his wife, not American women directly. This only feeds into the "Romney is disconnected from the average American" diatribe. Rosen and others chose to see it as Ann not being representative of average women in our country.
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Redlegg
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I am not sure there is average anymore, and I am not sure any President, or their spouse gets their knowledge directly from anyone. 300 million Americans. Black White, native, Asian, and any combination of anything. Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, and any one of untold religions, or none. Marrried, single, single parent, intact, divorced, working parents, a SAHP, Step parent, Long distance parent, college grad, non college grad, high school grad, non highschool grad. What is average, and what are the chances that anyone in the white house, or trying to get there is like the average American. I mean at what point am I supposed to believe that someone who pays 3, or 5 thousand dollars for one suit is "average" and not part of the elite. Maybe I should be more suspect of the people who are telling me that, than I should of the actual elite people anyways.
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LexieBelle
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That's cuz she's not ;-)
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Redlegg
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Rosen and others chose to see it as Ann not being representative of average women in our country.
It would be interesting to know who they do see as average....
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M5M5
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They are ALL out of touch. Every single one of them. They are ALL rich, are they not? The privileged.
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MinnesotaMom
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"I guess for me - I think someone - mom or dad - whenever possible should stay home with the kids. I value that. I respect anyone who makes the sacrifice for that to happen."
I think that's a great idea. But if the sahp decides to abandon the marriage (quits their job), then there should be no alimony.
When you quit your job, the checks stop. You quit on the marriage, same consequences.
I've been a stay at home parent and worked a professional career. At least for me, parenting is much easier.
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Char9
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Um, no. Simply pointing out that the "elite" class have no freaking clue how hard the working class have it. :)
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spinnerdegrassi
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They know how hard they have it, they just don't care. We all do the same to some extent, don't care about certain groups. I don't really sit worrying about other people's economic woes, because it's not important to me. I'm sure it's not really that important at a personal level to a guy like Romney. He just has to portray he gives a crap.
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googledad
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I'm sure life was tough what with his & her multi-millionaire parents , I just can't think of the horrible implications in deciding which of their 4 houses needs the car elevator .
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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googledad
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Apparently Mitt's wife is spared " the dignity of work " .
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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elliesmom
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I don't really have a problem with that concept. Most people would argue that if a SAHP is wrongfully terminated they should enjoy some unemployment benefits though.
Personally - if my husband wanted out I would suggest we stay married, let me re-educate myself to re-enter the workforce (if I went full time a year, maybe two TOPS) and THEN set about separating ourselves. Then there would be no need for alimony. And our kids wouldn't suffer from the turmoil that comes from both parties being flat-a$$ broke and angry as they lose, lose, then lose some more.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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Avaya
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I don't think the fact that she's never worked means ANYTHING at all and I can't believe the attention media is giving that.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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spinnerdegrassi
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I'd be more worried that Romney and his wife believe in magic underpants than something about her lacking basic economic knowledge.
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Redlegg
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You think that would have been settled, it is a tough choice between which nut you want, whether it is a mormon, or a black liberation theologist...I am sure the magic underpants will get recycled over and over, and it is a cult, and it was invented to cover up an affair, it is always good to see one set of religious nuts who are tolerant, attacking another and say, no way, THEY are the crazy ones...too funny. But hey, these are the issues of the day, and I am sure magic underpants will make the differernce for someone. OMG, they are starting a war on magic underpants...stop the war on magic underpants.....and really, he did mistreat a dog in the eighties, and I believe he may have even kicked a kittne in the 70s, and if that isn't enough, you know he is rich, right....
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spinnerdegrassi
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Yawn, Red being patronizing again. Go figure.
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Redlegg
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And magic underpants is cutting edge, not patronizing at all, good call...
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googledad
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Good call from the guy who at one time or another thought Jeremiah Wright , Bill Ayers , ACORN , the New Black Panthers , PIGFORD , Soyndra , and BIRTH CERTIFICATES were all indicative of why someone should not be President .
Oh BTW , the Houston Free Press has a nice story on GW , pretty funny after all this time to find out Dan Rather was right .
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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Redlegg
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So what we need to figure out is anyone's religious beliefs going to be an issue, or are they not. Which way do you see it, should they be an issue, or not an issue. Garments of the temple, burqas, hajib, are they an issue, or are they not...because when you bring crazy religious beliefs go for it all.....
I am sure Monica Lewinsky has a good story on Bill Clinton too, but hey, I won't vote for him either. So what is it going to be GW, Clinton, or the actual candidates running, and their records. And never forget:
Black Liberation Theology
Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ...
Maybe mormons feel they need those magic underpants to protect themselves....
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googledad
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So what we need to figure out is anyone's religious beliefs going to be an issue, or are they not.
>>>>>>>>>>> Apparently a lot of evangelicals have a problem with the so called " cult " that is Mormonism .
I am sure Monica Lewinsky has a good story on Bill Clinton too, but hey, I won't vote for him either. So what is it going to be GW, Clinton, or the actual candidates running, and their records.
>>>>>>>>> It would be nice if Mitt would run on his record not away from it .
Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ...
>>>>>>>>>> I take it that's paraphrased ?
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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Redlegg
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You take it wrong, that is not paraphrased. It would be nice if both of them run on their record. Mitt can run all he wants to, but his record is plain to see, as is Obama's. It would seem anyone who is worried about "magic" underwear has a problem with it too, wouldn't you say? I imagine for some, religion may trump policy, and for others it won't. The same problem came up in 2008, and President Obama won with 52.9% of the vote, and McCain lost with 45.7%. That is not a huge margin, and it does not take into account the huge elctoral vote states. But it seems there are quite a few voters that are on the fence, and I am not sure religion will be the thing to sway them.
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googledad
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You take it wrong, that is not paraphrased.
>>>>>>>>> Of course it is .
It's a dishonest representation of the meaning , the same as evangelicals calling Mormonism a " cult " .
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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Redlegg
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Hey what can you do with that, it is a direct quote from the founder's book, those are his words, not changed... in fact you can hear much more in his own words, this is not some thousand years old theology, the founder lives, is in his 70's today. You can hear his own words right here: youtube.com/watch?v=-1X5sZ6Q4Fw an interesting listen, there is also part 2.
More non paraphrased quotes from his books...
Black Theology and Black Power
"The time has come for white America to be silent and listen to black people.... All white men are responsible for white oppression.... Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man 'the devil.' ... Any advice from whites to blacks on how to deal with white oppression is automatically under suspicion as a clever device to further enslavement."
"Because white theology has consistently preserved the integrity of the community of oppressors, I conclude that it is not Christian theology at all."
"[I]nsofar as this country is seeking to make whiteness the dominating power throughout the world, whiteness is the symbol of the antichrist. Whiteness characterizes the activity of deranged individuals intrigued by their own image of themselves and thus unable to see that they are what is wrong with the world. Black theology seeks to analyze the satanic nature of whiteness and by doing so, prepare all nonwhites for revolutionary action."
"[L]iberal whites want to be white and Christian at the same time; but they fail to realize that this approach is a contradiction in terms -- Christianity and whiteness are opposites."
"Intrigued by their own expertise in Christian theology, white religionists think they have the moral and intellectual right to determine whether black churches are Christian. They fail to realize that their analysis of Christianity is inseparable from their oppressor mentality which shapes everything they say about God."
"There will be no peace in America until whites begin to hate their whiteness, asking from the depths of their being: 'How can we become black?'"
From the book A Black Theology of Liberation
"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the Black community. If God is not for us and against White people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of Black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the Black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of Black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love."
It is out there, it is his belief system, if people have no problem with it then so be it, but to get worked up about the mormon church...hey, if it is crazy, and stops someone from voting for a candidate because they have crazy religious beliefs, then more power to them. I just figure it is time to let the religious beliefs issue die, although someone's religion can show how they think about certain things, that does nto mean they govern that way.
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googledad
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Ah , I understand , the founder's meaning defines what anyone how ever attended services in a such a church believes .
In other words , horseshyt .
Gee , I wonder if there's anything controversial in the Bible ?
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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Redlegg
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I agree, horseshyt, just like the underpants....wouldn't you agree???
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googledad
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Don't know , aren't you the one who's made a big deal about " Black Liberation Theology " ?
I'd say Spinner as just following the example you set .
I know , you guys HATE when anybody argues like you do , you know the whole " false equivalence " thing ?
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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Redlegg
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Argue, a second ago we agreeing it was horsehyt, now it's not....make up your mind, do controversial religious beliefs have a place in the election, or don't they, I say no, it is a secular office. What do you say? Should they matter, or should they not, and I will go 100% with what you say. If you say no, i will not discuss them with you, if you say yes, then it will probably come up again. Your call..
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Gecko
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do controversial religious beliefs have a place in the election, or don't they, I say no, it is a secular office
---> By that statement, then every person holding a public office (elected or appointed) should be an Atheist. They should also have no opinions or be affiliated with any group...or race or gender.
---> Personally, I don't have a problem with anyone's belief systems/personal opinions...religious, abortion, death penalty, political party, NRA, etc...or what their gender or race is...my only requirement is that they can set aside those beliefs/opinions, their race and gender, and represent ALL people that they were elected/appointed to represent. If you're black, you have to be able to represent white...if you're female, you have to be able to represent male...if you're Atheist, you have to be able to represent Christian...if you're Democrat, you have to be able to represent Republican...if you're Pro-Life, you have to be able to represent Pro-Choice...if you're a card-carrying member of the NRA, you have to be able to represent those who think that only criminals and cops should have guns...and so on and so forth.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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googledad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/31/05
Posts: 10207
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Argue, a second ago we agreeing it was horsehyt, now it's not
>>>>>>>>>> It wasn't horseshyt when you thought Rev. Wright and Trinity United disqualified Obama as Presidential material . After all , ya know , you're the one always bringing it up . Thank God we don't have a Muslim running , you'd be all over that shyt with your " religion of peace " nonsense .
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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Redlegg
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26686
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So does that mean crazy religious beliefs are ok to talk about or not?
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googledad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 12/31/05
Posts: 10207
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Only for you apparently .
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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