Char9
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Finally talked to SS, and he is happy to finally finish up his first part of his training. H didn't know what the plans were so he and the girls worked out when they were leaving, which would be immediately following the "pinning" ceremony. BM is quite upset right now. Says she feels as if SS does not want her there, that she'd embarrass him, etc. SS has said nothing to that affect that we know of. She is upset that SHE is not pinning him, while H is totally fine with it, I think. The 6 and 2 1/2 year old nephews will be up there with him to pin him. I thought that was so sweet. Then there is the formal dinner the night before. Both sisters tried to talk their brother into inviting his mom to go to the dinner. He said that the dinner is for spouses/significant others (girlfriends/boyfriends), yes there were some women in the program. The sisters told him how bad their mom felt about not pinning him and not going to the dinner. It's not for her, it's for him and she should respect his wishes. I am really glad I am not going now. I can imagine how depressing it will be with her all whiney and pitying herself. Why can't she just let it go and be happy for him? Be there to support him and enjoy the ceremony? I don't understand that. Maybe b/c I'm not a mom. Can someone tell me I should understand or that I'm missing something here?
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LexieBelle
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Nah, you're not missing anything. She's one of "THOSE" mothers.. gag me.. where it's about "them" and what THEY aren't getting/doing/missing and NOT about their children. They're the type who have kids to feel better about themselves.
No worries Char, you're sane, she's nuts ;-)
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SRS
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So, just curious, did SS call you and tell you this info about his Mom?
I know you only recently started counseling, but it still seems that you are still doing that one-up thing with your husband's ex. Perhaps at some point you will come to a point where you don't care so much about what she is doing. Delve into why you do it and learn to redirect your thoughts.
Edited by SRS (05/07/12 09:48 AM)
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LexieBelle
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No offense SRS but it sounds like she got that direct from the Stepson no?
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SRS
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I am not sure if it came from DH or SS - or perhaps a combination of both.
Perhaps in the furture, if they bring up gossip about her husbands ex, she can learn to redirect the conversation. Even get to a point where she doesn't give a hoot about what the ex-wife is doing.
ETA: Kind of "oh, I'm sorry. What uniform combination are you wearing?" Instead of comparing herself to the exW.
Edited by SRS (05/07/12 10:07 AM)
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Char9
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SD called her brother. During that call, we were all in the room, the girls told their brother that their mom felt badly and that he should take her to the formal dinner. They also told him that she felt bad about not being up there with him to do the pinning. That was when he told them the dinner was for spouses/significant others only. They said that there may be other mom's there, which he did not respond to. I offered no commentary during their discussion. After the call, one of the girls read the email their mom sent to them about how she felt. I did not ask to hear it, nor did H. I wasn't trying to one up her at all. That is why I asked if I was missing something. I cannot control what the girls say or don't say. I know I can walk away from a conversation, however it is my house and again, I did not offer any commentary on what they said. They feel comfortable enough to tell us this stuff. Along with other things that happen at their mom and step dad's house. Which both H and I never say anything about to them. I only wanted to know if I was not being empathetic enough to her feelings. It's rather difficult to walk away when the girls are saying something when it's in our home don't you think? I'm not being mean, I'm just trying to understand why she feels this way.
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SRS
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I think you need to work with your therapist on learning not to care about your husbands ex-wife. Perhaps find ways to deflect conversation. Aren't they grown women?
I no longer allow my little guys to say negative things about their Dad in my home. I don't want to know that he sleeps in the same bed with his gf. or that they argue a lot. or whatever tidbit they feel they have to share. It is my house and I do control what is said.
I can tell you that if they are talking about her in your home, they are most likely talking about you in her home.
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LexieBelle
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I don't think you're wrong in this scenario Char. It IS your home and you DO want the kids to feel comfortable around you. On the flip side, it's hard to disengage when, you're being engaged (conversations going on around you etc).
You will probably NEVER understand how she thinks (the mother). Some people just aren't rational. Can't fix stupid as the saying goes. And the kids will have to deal with their feelings about her themselves.. All you can do is be supportive, while not letting yourself get dragged down in the process. Trick is.. finding that balance ;)
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SRS
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You said that well, LB.
--------be supportive, while not letting yourself get dragged down in the process.
But, don't you think that these grown women know they make Char uncomfortable? They aren't kids based on her prior posts and she's been with her husband for quite some time. Why did they call from her home and not their own if they wanted to discuss their Mom's feelings? If I have something private I want to talk with my sibling about, I call him when I am alone.
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Char9
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H and I mentioned that we had not talked to SS about the celebrations. SD took it upon herself to call him to get more details about how the kids should dress etc. H was going to call him later on, but they called him right then. I get what you are saying, I need to find that balance between keeping them comfortable and willing to talk and deflecting the conversations from their mom and her feelings. I will be seeing the therapist this week and will discuss this with him. Maybe he can give me ideas on how to handle this delicately. LOL. Thanks for the input. I always appreciate the honesty and suggestions. :)
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LexieBelle
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Hmmm... this is a tough one. Honestly? While I'd rather not know particulars about what goes on in Dad's home, or know about ex.. I DO want my child to feel comfortable telling me ANYTHING. And yeah, that means I sometimes hear more than I want to hear.
BUT, it also keeps me informed AND lets me know when the rules are being broken etc. Like in our case, I have a no-contact order with my ex's first wife and my daughter. If my daughter DIDN'T talk to me freely? I wouldn't know that was being violated.. on a regular/consistent basis.
I wouldn't know that he allows her to go 24+ hours without urinating. Regularly.
So yeah, I hear a bunch of drivel I do NOT care about? But she tells me EVERYTHING. I have raised her in an environment where secrets are BAD and anything you are made to feel like you SHOULD hide? Probably SHOULDN'T be hidden. She knows she can come to me and tell me ANYTHING, about anyone or anything.. even if I don't like it. Even if it won't make me happy. We don't hide things, we don't have secrets, we don't lie and everyone should have one person they can TOTALLY trust. Good, bad, or ugly.
Now, to each their own.. I couldn't do what you're doing. To me, and it's just MY opinion, it sets the standard/seed for hiding things later about OTHER stuff. DD's father is like that. Don't ask, don't tell. And you know what it's resulted in? A kid who is afraid to disagree. Afraid to share how she really feels. Afraid of rejection. Faking her emotions when she's there so she doesn't get rejected. Why? Because she can't be open and honest.
I just think it's a bad, bad precedent to set with kids. 6 years old, can see it sooooo clearly in my own daughter, what a difference it makes. Open environments, versus closed ones.
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SRS
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I think that working on ideas with your therapist might help your situation.
These are grown people you are dealing with, btw, not kids. I'm not entirely convinced that they don't do hurtful things on purpose.
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Char9
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It is a difficult position to be in. While I understand to a degree how his ex feels, it puts undue guilt onto the girls, guilt they don't need to be under. I lived my life with guilt, mum was a master at it. She did the same as their mother; guilted me into doing things I resented b/c I was afraid to hurt her feelings. This is the biggest hurdle I need to get over. That and learning how to deal with the skids without feeling as if I don't deserve to be there or love them. Younger SD's bf told me she raves about me, in a good way, and that sometimes she likes me more than her dad. While that felt good to know and hear, it also hurt me b/c I know how it would hurt H. I would NEVER tell him that. I guess it's because I wasn't the "parent", and I speak my mind without (or trying not to) judge them. They've come to respect me and understand what I say and appreciate my honesty. I don't want to lose that. I am sorry to hear about your child though. It is very painful for a young child to have to lie or feel so uncomfortable with the other parent they can't be themselves. My heart goes out to you and your child. Been there done that. It s*cks.
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SRS
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I'm just not into my kiddos gossiping about what happens at Dad's house.
I do not need to know everything that happens - like when he got in a fight with his current woman he had to sleep in the garden shed. Or the last woman used her plants for ashtrays. Really, I don't care.
THere is a difference between gossiping, telling if something dangerous happens, or disagreeing with something.
It would be easy to pump my kids for info about their Dad's house, really easy. They don't see Dad very often and don't have any kind of trust built with him. But, I don't.
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Reilly
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I don't think the responsibility should be on the child to decide what to keep from mommy or what to hide from daddy.
Kids should feel comfortable in their homes...both of them..the freedom to talk about the other parent shows maturity on the part of the listening adult..
That said..Char's daughters are grown, they have to KNOW that talking about their mother makes Char uncomfortable..in that case, they aren't being very mature about their conversations...
With all things being equal, children, adult or otherwise, shouldn't have to act like the other parent doesn't exist...its a reality that it took two people to make that child who at one point, felt kindly towards each other...
I wouldn't tolerate a child, adult or otherwise, using the other parent to be hateful or condescending to me, or actively comparing households, etc etc... but to NOT be able to say something that involves the other parent...? To not be able to mention her in a passing conversation...? is just not very realistic...and believe it or not, I've defended her on a few occasions that taught my SC's that it was uncool to play both ends to the middle and it wouldn't happen in our house...if its important..tell us, but otherwise, keep it respectful...
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Ever notice how 'What the hell' is always the right answer?~Marilyn Monroe
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LexieBelle
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Thanks Char.. I appreciate that.. I've taken the road I have largely because you and I? Have VERY similar "issues" ;) In marrying ex? I basically married a male version of my mother.. emotionally speaking. He just hid it REALLLYYYY well and by the time the red flags really started appearing? I was already pregnant and getting married. I came THISCLOSE to cancelling our wedding. In hindsight? I should have.
Moving ahead to now.. My current situation is going to become a lot like yours. One of "those" mothers.. emotionally needy.. will use the kids to play victim.. Yadda yadda yadda yadda. Should be fun, but I'm very well prepared for it now, lol.
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SRS
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But, Char, aren't these women and not girls? IMO, they should know by now if they are hurting your feelings.
Isn't one in the middle of a divorce and has a home of her own? The SS is an officer in the military.
My ex used to blame a lot of his feelings about family on his parents and his StepMom. IMO, when you get past a certain age, you need to take responsiblity for your own actions and your reactions to situations. A grown up knows if they are being mean or hateful unless they have some type of psychiatric disorder.
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SRS
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You said that well, Reilly.
-------it was uncool to play both ends to the middle and it wouldn't happen in our house...if its important..tell us, but otherwise, keep it respectful.
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spinnerdegrassi
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Your SD's sound like nutjobs, sort of like their mother. It seems your SS is the only normal one of the bunch, and probably the only one who will hold down a long term job.
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SRS
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Holy crap. I kind of agree with the resident Archie Bunker... lol.
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spinnerdegrassi
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Gr8dad is much more Archie Bunker than I am. I'm Vic Mackie.
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LexieBelle
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But it's not "gossip" SRS.. It's sharing their EXPERIENCES with you! And PARTIcULARLY because they do NOT see him that often. Don't you see that? Of COURSE they want to tell you every little bit. It's a novel experience.. you're their main base.. their touchstone. And they go off somewhere else where things are TOTALLY different and they come back.. what do you think they are going to want to do??
Just would gently suggest that what you're saying is a little like what you're criticizing Char for. Perhaps?
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SRS
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Nah....there is a difference in gossip and sharing. I don't want them to gossip and say hurtful things about anyone.
I'm not at all criticizing Char, btw. Just offering an opinion. I think she's in a hard sitch and her adult skids are very selfish.
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Char9
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I have to say that in many LB is right. They don't see their dad often. They see their mom much more and their dad hadn't said anything negative about BM in quite some time to them or in front of them. In fact, he's even gotten beyond saying anything about her even to me. They aren't being mean or hurtful intentionally; they are "sharing" how their mother feels and how bad they feel for that. However, with that being said, they also know that I feel guilty for "ruining" their childhoods. So maybe, this is a subconsious way of reminding me what their mother went through. I don't want to stop them from sharing, but it does sort of "twist the knife" when they say things like their mom feels bad about SS not wanting her involved in his ceremony; things like that. I know I am in no way responsible for her feelings, but I do feel remorse for hurting her, even though H was the one who was married to her. SO maybe I need to tell them that if they feel the need to tell their dad something, I'd rather not hear it as it hurts me. Until I can get to a point where I am more secure in myself. Another reason why I haven't been attending gson's ball games, I feel that I am just a constant reminder to BM about her destroyed first marriage. I don't want to put her in that position. The problem will be when the birthdays come up for the grandkids. I hope I can cope better by then. :)
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SRS
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THis isn't about you, imo.
This is about selfish adults saying hurtful things to you and their father. There is a difference between sharing and being hurtful.
If you are uncomfortable, just say excuse me and leave the room. DOn't sit around and let them control how you perceive yourself.
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elliesmom
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Honestly I think your SDs are selfish bytches for needling their brother on their mother's behalf on HIS BIG DAY. Talking about it front of you well of course they would. Selfish bytches tend to do that sort of thing.
Get your dogs some Marine Corps outfits, take their pics, and send it to your SS with a Congrats! we are so proud of you card and be done with it. At least then he will know he has some family that won't make it torture to be around them.
And Char - I am guessing that what really "destroyed" BMs marriage is her bottomless pit vacuum of selfishness. That she has managed to model very well for her daughters. She has moved on in life (remarried even right?) - when will you?
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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Char9
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That is the very reason why I am back in therapy. I think that's a good idea about the dogs. LOL. I have sent him a card already, with some candy. Sent cookies, and brownies. Have sent messages via facebook telling him how proud we all are of his accomplishments. And yes, I will remove myself from the conversation the next time it comes up. It is getting old and I will need to stand up for myself. Thank you.
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Gecko
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My ex used to blame a lot of his feelings about family on his parents and his StepMom. IMO, when you get past a certain age, you need to take responsiblity for your own actions and your reactions to situations.
---> What 'age' would that be...16, 18, 21, 25, 30?
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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elliesmom
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I hope you know it wasn't a "get over it" kind of thing. But in a way - I encourage you to look at it again.
Even if you took something from her (BM) that she cherished and in no way did anything to lose, then what? Is your sole purpose in life to torture yourself? Is it made better if you only allow yourself a little happiness? Do you, when wronged by people, take pleasure in their misfortune and thusly you must torture yourself to give BM the pleasure you feel she deserves?
You realize that all of those statements - none of it was actually about BM. It was all about how YOU feel and YOU perceive things. Change YOU - and you change the situation entirely. You get one shot at this life. Good luck.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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LexieBelle
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Starts as early as possible!!!!
HUGE pet peeve of mine.. Another thing I'm hammering into my kid's head. NO ONE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR REACTIONS BUT YOU. Period. Little Suzie Q didn't make you mad YOU made you mad. Little Suzie Q can do whatever the fvck she wants, all YOU can do is own YOUR reaction. Period.
This ranks in my top 3 list of "most important life 'soft skills' to teach your kids".
Sooner people learn this skill in life, the more control of their lives they will have and the happier they will be.
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elliesmom
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I would say it begins around 12 and ends around 25.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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SRS
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By the time you have a couple of kiddos, 2 divorces under your belt, bought and sold several homes, retired from one career, have a Master's degreee...
Yeah, it is time he quits blaming stepmom for his "issues." If you abuse your wife or anyone else it isn't SMs fault, it is a choice you make.
Char's step-adults are old enough to know they are being selfish arseholes. They sound like they know it, but choose to continue to do it.
Now, it is all about her reaction to their acting mean.
Edited by SRS (05/07/12 02:38 PM)
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elliesmom
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I agree that you start as early as possible. But I would not "expect" to see real success with that skill until 12ish.
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Forgiveness is...letting go of the hope that the past can be changed.
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Reilly
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We started holding SS responsible for his actions at around age 10 or 11...I mean, with regard to his feeling snotty about his mother and having a step mother...It took a while, but we were adament and would not sway...you wanna act like a brat? You'll get treated as one..no excuses for bad, disrespectful behavior...none...
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Ever notice how 'What the hell' is always the right answer?~Marilyn Monroe
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Gecko
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By the time you have a couple of kiddos, 2 divorces under your belt, bought and sold several homes, retired from one career, have a Master's degreee...
---> I'm not sure how these activities relate to how one does or does not act/react; especially the buying and selling of homes.
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If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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SRS
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Really?
If you are old enough to take on the responsibility of everything I listed, then you should be responsible enough to man up and hold yourself responsible (not SM) for your actions.
A grown person blaming SM for acting like an arse, is a pansy imo.
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spinnerdegrassi
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Maybe she abused him.
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