gr8Dad
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Reged: 06/07/04
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"Martin was concerned for his safety, as was conveyed by the girlfriend."
So concerned that he continued to talk to her and not call the police? Doesn't sound like fear to ME. Of course, we only hold ZIMMERMAN to that standard when we say if HE was afraid, he shouldn't have gotten out of his car.
" Zimmerman was not just walking around but was deliberately and with intent, following him."
And IF that was happening (we will address that in a minute) Zimmerman was still PERFECTLY WITHIN HIS RIGHTS. I can folow you through a public place ALL DAY LONG, and its legal.
"Didn’t Martin run? Didn’t Zimmerman lose sight of him and then hunt for him? Thus, he instigated what subsequently occurred."
Martin ran before Zimmerman got out of the car. Martin ran up the street and around the corner. Zimmerman, having lost sight of him, headed in that direction to see where he went. When the police said to stop following, he headed back to his car, and Martin confronted him.
"He was also armed with a pistol. Do you really think Martin started beating on this stranger simply for catching up to him if he wasn’t scared to death?"
The pistol was holstered and not visible. Martin RAN before Zimmerman got out of the CAR. He had no idea Zimmerman had a pistol until he SAW IT and tried to GRAB it.
"Do you think it unlikely that Zimmerman, who was determined to stop this punk, would not have either intentionally made the gun visible or outright pulled it out in order to threaten the punk to keep him there?"
Okay, that is not what the evidence suggests, but lets assume that happened. What kind of MORON sees a guy with a GUN trained on them and ATTACKS that person, when they are NOT cornered? And if he DID attack Zimmerman when he had the gun out, how the HELL did he PUNCH him in the face and bang his head, while Zimmerman had a GUN trained on him? It makes NO sense.
"And let’s talk about intent. Tell me what Martin’s intent was as he walked home, and tell me what Zimmerman’s intent was when he called 911."
We have no idea what Martin's intent was. We know Zimmerman saw what he thought was suspicious, and called police on it. While he was on the phone, Martin walked up to his car, stared at him, then ran away. Sorry, but THAT is suspicious, even if the reason for the original call was NOT. And call me old fashioned, but a guy walking with his faced covered, strolling along, in the RAIN, is suspicious.
"Who instigated? Who had intent to harm if events escalated?"
Who had intent to harm if the situation escalated? Well, ME, and anyone else who values their own life. Sorry, perhaps I am not understanding what you are getting at, but a person who carries a gun does so with the intent of PROTECTING themselves if a situation escalates.
Oh, and I didn't post the text of the 911 call, because if you cannot find it by now, you never will, lol.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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toomom
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Reged: 05/13/12
Posts: 141
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"At what point did Martin see the gun?"
He NEVER did according to George's test. George SAYS I felt he would feel my gun.
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gr8Dad
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Reged: 06/07/04
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Okay, obviously you DIDN'T watch the video. During the re-enactment, Zimmerman stated, "Thats when my jacket moved up and I had my firearm on my right hip. My jacket moved up and he saw...I feel like he saw...he looked at it and said, 'You're gonna die tonight mother f!@#er!' and he reached for it, but I felt his arm going down to my side. And I grabbed it...and I grabbed my firearm and shot him. One time."
Okay, this is a DIRECT transcript from the re-enactment. I JUST watched it again, and transcribed it myself, JUST NOW.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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english7
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Reged: 11/27/09
Posts: 3001
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“So concerned that he continued to talk to her and not call the police?”
There wasn’t time to call the police, and you know it. The girlfriend stated she heard the phone go dead right after Zimmerman the first meeting.
“I can folow you through a public place ALL DAY LONG, and its legal.”
Ummm, I kind of doubt that. “Fla. Stat. § 784.048. Stalking; definitions; penalties. (2008)
(1) As used in this section, the term:
(a) "Harass" means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person that causes substantial emotional distress in such person and serves no legitimate purpose.
(b) "Course of conduct" means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short, evidencing a continuity of purpose. Constitutionally protected activity is not included within the meaning of "course of conduct." Such constitutionally protected activity includes picketing or other organized protests.
(c) "Credible threat" means a threat made with the intent to cause the person who is the target of the threat to reasonably fear for his or her safety. The threat must be against the life of, or a threat to cause bodily injury to, a person.
(d) "Cyberstalk" means to engage in a course of conduct to communicate, or to cause to be communicated, words, images, or language by or through the use of electronic mail or electronic communication, directed at a specific person, causing substantial emotional distress to that person and serving no legitimate purpose.
(2) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(3) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person, and makes a credible threat with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of death or bodily injury of the person, or the person's child, sibling, spouse, parent, or dependent, commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.”
“The pistol was holstered and not visible. Martin RAN before Zimmerman got out of the CAR. He had no idea Zimmerman had a pistol until he SAW IT and tried to GRAB it.”
Really, Gr8, this just isn’t worth my effort to argue. Read what you wrote again. If you can’t see your lack of reason, then you just made my case.
“And if he DID attack Zimmerman when he had the gun out, how the HELL did he PUNCH him in the face and bang his head, while Zimmerman had a GUN trained on him? It makes NO sense.”
It’s entirely possible.
“We have no idea what Martin's intent was. We know Zimmerman saw what he thought was suspicious, and called police on it. While he was on the phone, Martin walked up to his car, stared at him, then ran away. Sorry, but THAT is suspicious, even if the reason for the original call was NOT. And call me old fashioned, but a guy walking with his faced covered, strolling along, in the RAIN, is suspicious.”
This is getting more and more ludicrous. How do you know Zimmerman was in his car when they first met? Ugh! Did you listen to what the girlfriend said? And I do believe you would think just like Zimmerman did.
“Oh, and I didn't post the text of the 911 call, because if you cannot find it by now, you never will, lol.”
So predictable. I wanted you to post it yourself because it is so evident what Zimmerman’s intent was. You can’t do it, though, because it would be glaringly obvious to everyone that you are twisting and warping, as usual. To say that you won’t do it because I can’t find it myself is, well, immature.
Zimmerman:
We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.
This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. [00:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman:
He looks black.
911 dispatcher:
Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He’s here now … he’s just staring. [00:42]
911 dispatcher:
He’s just walking around the area, the houses? OK.
Zimmerman:
Now he’s staring at me. [00:48]
911 dispatcher:
OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?
Zimmerman:
That’s the clubhouse.
911 dispatcher:
He’s near the clubhouse now?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.
And he’s a black male.[1:03]
911 dispatcher:
How old would you say he is?
Zimmerman:
He’s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.
911 dispatcher:
Late teens?
Zimmerman:
Uh, huh.
Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out.
He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. [01:20]
911 dispatcher:
Let me know if he does anything, OK?
Zimmerman:
OK.
911 dispatcher:
We’ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.
Zimmerman:
OK.
These assholes. They always get away.
When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse. [1:39]
911 dispatcher:
OK, so it’s on the left hand side of the clubhouse?
Zimmerman:
Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don’t turn and make a left.
He’s running. [2:08]
911 dispatcher:
He’s running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman:
Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]
911 dispatcher:
OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards?
Zimmerman:
The back entrance.
[It sounds like Zimmerman says under his breath, ‘F-ing coons’ at 2:22]
NOTE:
• [Listen here at 1:17 for CNN's edited frame]
•
911 dispatcher:
Are you following him? [2:24]
Zimmerman:
Yeah. [2:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK.
We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]
Zimmerman:
OK. [2:28]
911 dispatcher:
Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]
Zimmerman:
George. He ran.
911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, what’s your last name?
Zimmerman:
Zimmerman.
911 dispatcher:
What’s the phone number you’re calling from?
Zimmerman:
407-435-2400
911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman:
Yeah.
911 dispatcher:
Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman:
Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]
911 dispatcher:
Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]
Zimmerman:
Um, I don’t know. It’s a cut-through so I don’t know the address. [3:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK, do you live in the area?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, yeah, I live here.
911 dispatcher:
OK, what’s your apartment number?
Zimmerman:
It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]
911 dispatcher:
OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]
Zimmerman:
Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]
911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, I’ll let them know you’ll meet them at …
Zimmerman:
Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49]
911 dispatcher:
OK, that’s no problem.
Zimmerman:
My number … you’ve got it?
911 dispatcher:
Yeah, I’ve got it. 435-2400?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, you got it.
911 dispatcher:
OK, no problem. I’ll let them know to call you when they’re in the area. [4:02]
Zimmerman:
Thanks.
911 dispatcher:
You’re welcome.
Call ends 4:07
Above was a transcription of Zimmerman’s call to 911 moments before he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. It was transcribed to the best of the transcriber’s abilities, and is not meant to replace any official transcript of the call.
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ssmom79
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Reged: 06/27/07
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I have never read Animal Farm but I am really glad you mentioned it. My Dad gave me a copy once and told me to read it. I was defiant and never did. I think I will pull it on my Kindle.
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ssmom79
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I just don't see how SYG can apply here. IMO it's not how I interpret the law and the law is not always black and white and things can be left to interpretation. I do not see how he reasonably believed he was in imminent danger of death. You can retell it however you want, you have a man who knowingly chased after a person in their late teens and subsequently after advisement by an operator not to follow and that the police were en-route, he still followed. Does he have to listen? HECK NO. Does it alter my opinion of his defense? HECK YES. He got a possible broken nose and some head scratches that did not even require medical treatment beyond a bandage and the kid got death.
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gr8Dad
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Reged: 06/07/04
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Actually, I do not think SYG applies either. This was flat out self defense. He was pinned to the ground, the perp was reaching for his gun, he was told by the perp that he was going to DIE that night, and he DEFENDED him self.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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googledad
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Reged: 12/31/05
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Sounds like old George could sell you the Brooklyn Bridge .
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Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
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ssmom79
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Reged: 06/27/07
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NO way, that's my bridge. I got it last week at an auction.
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gr8Dad
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 30195
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If you have evidence that contradicts something, I am always willing to look at it, but if you are just going to repeatedly say, "He's guilty, despite the evidence, because I think so", why waste your time? I mean is a DEBATE< so ADD something, show some EVIDENCE< make your CASE.
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Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...
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