finz
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/17/08
Posts: 6462
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I don't support an immature grown woman running around a forum trolling......and yet, you are still here
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Redlegg
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26679
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I do not think anyone supports an immature grown man running around a gated community. But that is not much different than asking if you support banning all guns from all people. I would not call it a housing area, sounds too much like the military, or a regularly patrolled kind of neighborhood.
If Trayvon Martin expected a white person to profile him, isn't that profiling. How many times have we heard that profiling is wrong. Trayvon was a thug, wrong because it is profiling, but somehow Trayvon was correctly profiling George Zimmerman. Turns out Trayvon was wrong. Did Trayvon assume something because of what he thought George's race was, did he make a judgment call based on race? George Zimmerman is not white, and as it turns out, not racist. I mean only George knows for sure, but his history doesn't show racism.
With all the facts out there, why did they charge him with murder, and not manslaughter. The investigator seemed to think there was enough for a manslaughter, the DA or whomever said not enough for anything, and a month later it becomes murder. I have not seen or heard anything that would make me believe he was on a mission to kill someone that night. He may have had a mission, but it was not to kill Trayvon Martin.
The media filters make it almost impossible to say what actually happened. People choose to believe what they choose to believe.
He lied about the bail issues, that cannot do anything but make him look less credible. He failed to follow a common sense suggestion from the dispatcher, no medical follow up, and others. This guy has done a lot of things wrong, it doesn't make him guilty of anything but being stupid, but that may be enough.
So what happens if he is found innocent, what next? What is "justice" here, that he got due process or that he get's convicted.
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ssmom79
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 7784
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It's like you read my mind English. I agree with many if not all of your comments.
I just don't see this kid as a thug, according to my definition. Maybe it's because I know some thugs from my past. People who robbed and shot people. People who always carried a gun ALWAYS and would never have been out walking alone without it. People who deal drugs and not just piddly pot drugs, crack, meth, heroine....people who beat their girlfriends and leave them bleeding and calling their best friend for safety....THUGS. Or maybe it's because I'm guilty of some of the same offenses this kid was guilty of and I was no 'thug' (weed, skipping school, spray painting graffiti, theft, battery). For my definition, the thug word is a poor description IMO and just used to paint a picture.
I feel real sympathy for GZ. He will never get a fair trial and that's a shame. Florida has a pretty open law regarding what will happen in court. I will wait until the facts come out in trial. Until then GZ is a liar, proven. TM is...well he's dead so we can't get any real facts from him.
FTR record, my little attention seeking crime spree was during my parents divorce and I think I was acting out trying to get them to realize how much better I acted when they were married. Get back together and I'll be your good girl. Didn't work. I broke into my neighbors garage and smoked some weed in his boat with some friends. We found the spray paint and started doodling on the walls of the garage. The battery was on my sister, who I punched in the side when she wouldn't let me use the phone. She called 911 and I was arrested for battery. My mom came to school once to pick me up, right during lunch. Came right into the cafeteria. I was skipping school that day. The whole cafeteria got a kick out of that. Anyway, on paper these look bad but I would never be referred to as a thug.
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ssmom79
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Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 7784
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I thought it was very stupid to charge him with murder. The murder charge was likely to appease the people....which is not what the law is for. I'm afraid of the outcome whatever it is.
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Avaya
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Reged: 02/09/06
Posts: 9816
Loc: Arkansas
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[quote]Let us not forget George's statement when addressing the court:
"ZIMMERMAN: I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am."
As if???? that would have made him less in fear of his life? And would not have taken a gun out and shot the yougster? [/quote]
I sort of take that to mean he thought he was dealing with someone of the same maturity level as he, someone who rather than have a peer-to-peer conversation with him when approached, instead wouldn't stop and identify himself - someone who at 'that age' seemed like a threat. Perhaps if he'd realized the youngster was 17, he might have chalked his aloofness up to 'a kid who is scared to be questioned by an adult'. I presume that if Z had seen an unfamiliar 7 year old (because a 7 year old LOOKS like a 7 year old) he might still would have questioned the kid (why is a kid out here alone?) but wouldn't have felt threatened by him.
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Eternity is too long to be wrong.
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ssmom79
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 7784
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Just read that GZ took two lie detector tests and they confirm his account of the events. They aren't admissible in court. Why is that?
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googledad
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Reged: 12/31/05
Posts: 10207
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1. They weren't lie detector tests but voice stress tests .
2. " Lie detector " tests are never admissable . The margin of error is as great as 50% .
To quote George Costanza , " it's not a lie if you believe it " .
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ssmom79
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Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 7784
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Thank you for clarification. Is a voice stress test similar to a lie detector test? If they're not admissible why do I always hear about them? I recall local stories where people refuse them or fail them or actually this is the first time outside of a TV show that I read someone passed one. Except these weren't LD tests that were 'passed' now that you clarify.
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Redlegg
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Reged: 10/05/06
Posts: 26679
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usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-26/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-shooting-report/55847436/1
You look at the headline and it says passed a lie detector test, you read further in they explain that it is not the "classic" polygraph test, but a voice stress test. Both are lie detector tests, not admissable, and often used by police to guide an investigation. Their reliability is questionable.
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Maury
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Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 8146
Loc: This Asylum --->
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Polygraph tests are often used as a negotiating tool in a criminal case. I have used them in criminal sexual conduct cases. They are inadmissible in court because they are not accepted as scientifically valid by the scientific community. Some proponents argue that they are 90% accurate (like my polygraph examiner). There studies indicate issues with false positive tests (in other words, you may be telling the truth and it indicates you are lying).
As a result the Supreme Court decided they were inadmissible in the United States v. Scheffer, stating "There is simply no consensus that polygraph evidence is reliable." That ruling has been applied in subsequent federal court cases.
A voice stress tests is even more unreliable and also does not have acceptance in the scientific community.
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