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#120476 - 07/02/06 04:12 AM Fathers Have No Rights In Macomb County, Michigan
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
In Macomb County Michigan fathers have no rights or at least according to Judge Antonio P. Viviano who also happens to be the Chief Judge.

For over three years now I have been separated from my wife Christine Mitchell, who on Father’s Day 2003 took our children and filed for a divorce in Macomb County, Michigan.

At every turn my wife has done all that she can to make it impossible for me to see my children. She has gone against the recommendations of the friend of the court and has even moved the children out of state without the courts permission.

Yet every time that this is pointed out to either the Macomb County Friend of the Court or has been brought up to Judge Antonio P. Viviano, she has been allowed to do this, they even gave her the change of domicile.

As of December 2005 I have been allowed parenting time, but it has been very little, one weekend per month.

On June 30, 2006 we again went in front of Judge Antonio P. Viviano for the purpose of establishing a parenting time schedule.

In Judge Antonio P. Viviano own words he stated that I don’t need more parenting time than one weekend per month and I am lucky to get that. When I tried to argue my point Judge Antonio P. Viviano became irate and began shouting at me. He then went on to explain that these children do not need both parents. And that since my wife Christine Mitchell now lives in Cleveland Ohio it would be impossible to follow a normal parenting time schedule. Excuse me but she broke the law to get it.

I have done nothing wrong and neither have my children. It was due to my wife’s infidelity that this situation came to be, yet we are to be punished for this type of behavior, and the Macomb County Court condones it or at least Judge Antonio P. Viviano does. And all the while hiding behind the guise of “in the best interest of the children”

To date my wife Christine Mitchell is guilty of numerous attempts of custodial interference, parental kidnapping, domestic violence (assault with a motor vehicle and hit and run, both witnessed by my children), parental alienation and child neglect and abuse. However the Macomb County Court and Judge Antonio P. Viviano seem to think that this is in the best interest of the children.

It is time to put a stop to the way the Macomb County Court and Judge Antonio P. Viviano think, but what can be done, this judge thinks that he is GOD.

Are not my rights as guaranteed by the constitution being violated? What about the children do they not have the right to both parents?

Well first when it comes time for re-election this judge or any of his family should not be considered for office. The apple does not fall far from the tree and I am sure that he has instilled these same values onto his family, just look at the Bush family like father like son.

Second I will be sending this letter to everyone that should be concerned with it, including state and federal governments.

Anyone who wishes to receive more information can contact me at [email protected]
You can also visit my blog at http://outlaw-wolf.efx2.com

Robert W. Magee
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120477 - 07/02/06 12:26 PM Re: Fathers Have No Rights In Macomb County, Michigan [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
Buckeye Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 7873
Loc: OH
Take it to your city council, the Law Bar AND most importantly, take it to the press.

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#120478 - 07/02/06 01:44 PM Re: Fathers Have No Rights In Macomb County, Michigan [Re: Buckeye]
MamaKitty Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 1632
Loc: California
Maybe it's just my computer, but the recording on your website was very hard to hear, and the parts that were...it was awfully hard to tell what was being said... it didn't seem like a 'normal' conversation in some parts, which is where I've heard many parents being criticised for when they tape conversations. Have you thought of having it transcribed and printed out to be read? I could hear certain parts, yet not others, and a transcription would be easier for some people, especially ones like me with a hearing impairment, to 'hear' it. Maybe I missed in your blog (some pages were slow to load) what part your ex objected to- the content, the taping, or it's use on your blog? Also, some background on when and where it was taped?
Although I poked around a little, I didn't get a good sense of why (other than normal 'not getting along') your ex is keeping the children away, whether she has a new partner, whether you are paying child support based on minimal involvement, and what reason the court ruled against you...or what they 'have' against you that is being used.
I'm sure that was all on your blog somewhere, but when you post here, those details might 'ring a bell' for someone here who might not be inclined to look at your blog for some reason. If you're posting in order to get more people to go to your blog, or if you're looking for more people to support you, MORE of those details will help, since after a while there's so many people who claim to have their children being withheld, they all kind of blur. Not sure if your post here was just to get traffic to your blog- either way, more info here or there, all in one spot, all in one read without a lot of clicking back and forth might help. People have such short attention spans, it couldn't hurt.
Good luck in your endeavors.

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#120479 - 07/02/06 04:20 PM Re: Fathers Have No Rights In Macomb County, Michigan [Re: MamaKitty]
jsp Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 4197
Since when does mom need a reason beyond just because. My husband's ex couldn't give the judge a good reason - he got visitation ordered again and more of it - some good that did. The court order isn't worth the paper it is written on.

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#120480 - 07/02/06 07:36 PM Re: Fathers Have No Rights In Macomb County, Michigan [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
Gecko Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 20602
Loc: Third rock from the sun
It's simple...file an appeal based on violations of the law (you can't retry the divorce, only appeal the outcome based on law). The Appellate Court can this reverse the ruling and remand back to the trial court for a new ruling. You can at that time, if the same Judge gets the case, ask that said Judge be rescued (taken off the case).
_________________________
If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!

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#120481 - 07/02/06 08:58 PM The falacy of recusal... [Re: Gecko]
gr8Dad Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
Judicial Recusal is the BIGGEST joke. The judge in question is the one responsible for making the decision to recuse him or herself. So, if they are even SLIGHTLY good at their job, you don't HAVE to ask for a recusal, cause they would recuse themselves for cause anyway. If they ARE biased, asking for a new trial, and then recusing themselves is like ADMITTING they are biased, and they won't do that.
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120482 - 07/02/06 09:17 PM Re: The falacy of recusal... [Re: gr8Dad]
Gecko Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 20602
Loc: Third rock from the sun
Judicial Recusal is the BIGGEST joke.

---> Maybe it is in your neck of the woods, but it's not in mine.
_________________________
If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!

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#120483 - 07/03/06 03:41 AM Re: Fathers Have No Rights In Macomb County, Michigan [Re: Buckeye]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Thanks Buckeye for the comment. The Post that I did above I also mailed out to several newspapers and a tv news channel or two. I have also posted it several places on the internet. I am trying to get it emailed to the judicial tenure committee along with anyone else that I can get an email address for along with a few fathers rights sites. So far I haven't got any response from anyone except for here.
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120484 - 07/03/06 04:08 AM Re: Fathers Have No Rights In Macomb County, Michigan [Re: MamaKitty]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Thanks MamaKitty for your reply as well. Unfortunatly that is the best that the recording gets, it was done in my car. As soon as I taped it the very next day I contacted the Madison Heights Police Dept. Madison Heights, Michigan. When they heard the tape they were gun ho about an arrest of the brother in law Jared Mitchell but he was out of state at the time. When he returned they questioned him and then told me that it was an error in judgment on his part. If I had done that I would be in jail for abuse.

As far as my blog goes my X wife Christine Mitchell objects to everything about it. She doesn't like the tape, she really doesn't like the fact that I put my children's pictures on it. She doesn't like the way I just throw her name and her family's name around on it. She objects to me telling everyone that she is employed by Olan Mills and that she lives in Cleveland Ohio. And the X sister in law really hates me talking about her and her husband, Jared Mitchell the person who has abused both of my children. They have tried many times to have my blog shut down and the post's removed.

As far as why my wife is doing all of this is anybody's guess. I myself have no clue other than as a child she was put in the same situation by her mother Sheryl Mitchell who by the way now lives in Kalamazoo, Michigan. The only difference was that her mother actually got her real father to give the fight and sign over the children. As it was her brother Jared didn't even know that he had a real dad because her mother had their names changed. Jared didn't find out until he was 20+ years old and that was at our wedding. Unfortunatly for my wife, I am not going to just go away.

About the blog. Sure it's nice to get visits there, but that is not why I am doing this. I am doing this to be heard. In the hopes that it will change the way things are being done, not just to me but for every dad and mom out there. Specially those in Macomb County, Michigan that have been screwed over by the courts and by their X spouses that want total control. I may not win, but I will die trying.
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120485 - 07/03/06 04:22 AM Re: Fathers Have No Rights In Macomb County, Michigan [Re: jsp]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Thanks jsp for your reply also. Your totally right. Court orders are worthless. My wife wasn't supposed to move the children more than 100 miles away from me, but she up and moved to Cleveland Ohio without the courts permission. When I found out, unfortunatly she knew that I did, she managed to beat me to the court house by 10 minutes and she filed for a change of domicile. The first hearing was before a referee who ordered her back to Michigan, she got a lawyer an filed an objection. The next hearing was before the judge who granted the divorce for a breif moment it looked like she was going to jail however she managed to pull off a different date and even had me thrown in jail for a few old traffic tickets that I had long ago forgotten about just so that I wouldn't make the hearing and she would win by default I put a stop to that and it was set for another date. Her lawyer managed to somehow geta different judge to hear the case and she was awarded the change of domicile.
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120486 - 07/03/06 04:28 AM Re: Fathers Have No Rights In Macomb County, Michigan [Re: Gecko]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Thanks Gecko for your reply also. This is something that I would like to do, but I have been told that there is a time limit for filing of 30 days Please correct me if I am wrong. Of course I am how would you say court illerate, I cannot figure out the forms and I can't seem to get anyone to help. I cannot afford an attorney either. I am open to suggestions here.
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120487 - 07/03/06 04:30 AM Find.. [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
gr8Dad Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
...a hitman that will take payments...
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120488 - 07/03/06 04:32 AM Re: The falacy of recusal... [Re: gr8Dad]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Thanks gr8Dad for commenting as well. If there is one thing I can tell you about this judge is that he is not about to admit that he was wrong about anything, or that he is bias. The man thinks that he is GOD and he acts like it too.
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120489 - 07/03/06 04:35 AM Re: Find.. [Re: gr8Dad]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Thats just what I need gr8Dad. Seriously they have been expecting something like that from me so I don't think that I could pull it off
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120490 - 07/03/06 03:55 PM Just Curious [Re: gr8Dad]
MamaKitty Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 1632
Loc: California
Hey- please don't think I'm criticizing you... I really am curious---

Are you legally allowed to print the names of other people who are involved in your fight? Is there any difference depending on what state you are in?

I say this, because the only other times I can recall seeing any specific names mentioned regarding divorce were ones where (I think) police were involved, and there was the obligatory 'alleged' this and 'alleged' that legal 'out's added.

Or is it more like you can print their names and only get 'in trouble' legally if they decide to sue? Or can they sue?

On this board, and every other one I've seen, people are so careful to use nicknames or initials, and to alter most identifying details, so I am interested in what the legal ins and outs are of actually identifying particular people. Maybe you're just braving it?

I think I might have seen a few people name names, but I think that was more 'after the fact', which I can understand (not legally, just on a more conservative bent), because although I do have some good revenge ideas about the eventual ex, I can imagine that if I was posting his name all over, he'd make things even uglier than he has, and besides, I'm not really the type to go after 'social embarrassment punishment' myself- though I know people who are.... but I certainly wouldn't identify my present atty unless I already had another atty securely in place... but even then I'm curious what I could post about them, in voicing my dissatisfaction in their services. Name, address, specific issues I felt they were incomptent with and the outcome?

Anybody? Where's a good place to get the scoop on how/when/how much/why regarding the legality of posting identifying details about other people, as well as what the 'norm' is, since it seems like the legality would only be enforced by a civil lawsuit?

And, OP, was there any concern on your part that if you named names it might actually hinder your efforts- or has it helped?

Too many questions, probably. Regardless, I do admire your guts.
c

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#120491 - 07/03/06 04:09 PM To Outlaw Wolf [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
Gecko Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 20602
Loc: Third rock from the sun
Unfortunately, "ignorance of the law is no excuse" or so I have heard Judges say many times, but then again...they don't exactly hand out "manuals" in Family Law either so how in the hell are you expected to know the law?!?

Whether you can afford it or not, you're going to need an attorney. There are many out there who will allow you to start with a small retainer (like $500) and make payments. You'll need to have a copy of your divorce decree, copies of any correspondence related to the divorce and a copy of the transcript of the court hearing. You're also going to need witness testimony.

I can't stress enough that you are going to need an attorney...this is NOT some simple issue of law that you can argue yourself and draft yourself or even have a paralegal or attorney draft for you. You're dealing with a biased Judge and you're going to need a good attorney.
_________________________
If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!

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#120492 - 07/03/06 04:44 PM Re: Just Curious [Re: MamaKitty]
katiefedup Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 11669
I was thinking the same thing

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#120493 - 07/03/06 08:45 PM Re: Just Curious [Re: MamaKitty]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Hello again MamaKitty,

In no way do I think that you are criticizing me. Actually I am glad that you asked these particular questions, because everyone has the right to know these answers. Below is the response that I gave my X wife, her attorney and the Macomb County Court when they tried to have my blog suspended and my posts removed.

To Whom it May Concern:

As to the photographs of my children in the previous post's.

These are my children too, regardless of who has custody at this time.
The photo's in question were taken by me, which means that I hold the copyright's to them and I have the right to post them where and when I please.

As to the allegations of slander in the previous post's.

Let us get our terms correct.

A slanderous defamatory statement would be one which was false but made through oral communication by word of mouth, radio or television.

Libel is a defamatory statement made in writing.

Defamation is defined as an untrue statement which causes you to be held in contempt or ridicule and as a result causes you damages.

False statements which are made maliciously, in other words, those generated with the state of mind arising from ill-will or hatred, are more often to be held by the courts to be defamatory than false statements which are not malicious (such as simple jokes or something of that nature).

However, if the statement is true, there is still no defamation, regardless of what the person’s state of mind was at the time.

A defamation case is a difficult kind of lawsuit to win.

The first amendment to the United States Constitution protects freedom of speech and the courts have set forth a complicated set of rules that are used to determine whether particular types of statements are protected by the first amendment, regardless of whether they are true or false.


The owners of Efx2 were behind me all the way. Below is the PM they sent me.

I was e-mailed today from ex-wife regarding your blog. Here is my response as well as her original message. I will not get involved or stuck in the middle of this matter unless ordered by the courts to do so. I would like to keep this issue private in order to avoid EFx2Blogs getting caught in the middle. Thanks for your understanding.

- - - - - - - -

Feel free to send me as well as the member Outlaw-Wolf a court ordered Cease and Desist letter pertaining to the slander claims and I will have the blog mentioned removed. Until then my hands are tied as long as he is not breaking the law. I will forward this message to the member Outlaw-Wolf and try to resolve the matter but I can't make any promises.

Keith

-----Original Message-----

The following message was sent to you via the EFx2Blogs Forums Contact Us form by Christine Mitchell.

--------------------------------

This is for the forum administrator I have a big issue with a site that you have posted on yours. The user is Outlaw-Wolf. That is my ex-husband who has not only slander me but my family as well on his site. And he has posted pictures of my children that he did not get permission do so. I want this man's site removed from your site or I will take legal action to put this to a stop. He has put things on his site that tell people where I live work and other things in my life that he has no right doing and if you monitiored your sites a little bite better you would look into some other sites that other members have on the blog as well. What some of these people talk about is unbelieveable. But I want this man site to be removed from your blog or like I said I will take legal action which I already have turned this over to my lawyer and knows of his site and what has been posted as well. I don't care if there is a freedom of speech or not this is my life and my childrens life that he is making nearly impossible to live. I expect a answer back on this matter. This is the site
http://outlaw-wolf.efx2.com/ Thanks Ms. Mitchell

Also as of January 2006 the President of the US has passed a bill which also states that if you post anything about anybody else you must use your real name or you could face jail time. Which is fine with me, I have no problem with people knowing who I am, but I have nothing to hide.

I hope that this is a satisfactory answer to your questions


Edited by Outlaw_Wolf (07/03/06 09:45 PM)
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120494 - 07/03/06 08:47 PM If the words are spoken... [Re: MamaKitty]
gr8Dad Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
...it is referred to as slander, printed, it is liable. But there are some qualifying things that also must accompany this.

One, the statements must be FALSE, and the speaker or writer must be PROVEN to KNOW they were false. Also, the context of the conversation or written piece must be in a manner that people would believe this to be true, and consider the source reliable (this cover magazines such as Mad and National Lampoon for satirical pieces). Also, there must be a PROVABLE loss, either monetary or reputation, and if it is ones reputation, you must show where there was some kind of loss monetarily because of the damage to one's reputation.
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120495 - 07/03/06 08:50 PM Re: Just Curious [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
Dee78 Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
Whether it is legal or not, it isn't safe. You do realize that not only do people know what your children look like, they know where they live. How would you feel if they or any of these people you've given information about were killed, kidnapped, or harmed in any way because you have posted all of their personal information.

I'm betting that the owner of your blogsite wouldn't appreciate your throwing his name and address around either.

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#120496 - 07/03/06 09:00 PM Re: Just Curious [Re: Dee78]
Gecko Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 20602
Loc: Third rock from the sun
I'm betting that the owner of your blogsite wouldn't appreciate your throwing his name and address around either.

---> Since it would be a registered website, that information would be in the public domain.
_________________________
If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!

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#120497 - 07/03/06 09:02 PM Re: Just Curious [Re: Gecko]
Dee78 Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
Oh okay. I wouldn't want mine out there but I guess if he knows it's there, that's his risk to take.

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#120498 - 07/03/06 09:14 PM Re: To Outlaw Wolf [Re: Gecko]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Hi Gecko,

Well "ignorance of the law" is just the excuse that my X wife used to stay out of jail and receive her change of domicile. I for one don't see how she did it other than to either pay off Judge Antonio P. Viviano or by providing sexual favors or something??? Heres how it went. My X wife Christine Mitchell has moved four times in a two year period for the first three moves she notifies the Friend of the Court of her new address within a week of the move. However on her last move, which by the way was not only more than 100 miles away from me, but also across the state border and she failed to notify anybody of this for 10 months. Her defense was I didn't know than I couldn't move more than 100 miles away for him. I didn't know that I couldn't move out of state. And this one which is a total lie, I didn't know that I had to notify the Friend of the Court. It doesn't matter how you look at it. Its custodial interference and parental kidnapping. Its illegal and is supposed to be punishable by jail time. Yet she didn't goto jail and she got to stay in Cleveland Ohio.

As far as the attorney goes. Even if I could afford one, there is no one that will take on Judge Antonio P. Viviano and these guy's no, on which side their bread is buttered. They all stick together. I can't even get the media to comment on this.
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120499 - 07/03/06 09:15 PM Ya know, I always wondered... [Re: Dee78]
gr8Dad Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
...why people are so freaked out about their name being on the Internet. Honestly, you are MORE likely to be a victim of a crimes by someone who KNOWS you, or a random crime by someone who DOESN'T have any idea who you are, even after the crime is committed.

Honestly, can you imagine someone sitting around surfing the internet looking for JUST the right person, with JUST the right name to attack?
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120500 - 07/03/06 09:20 PM Re: Ya know, I always wondered... [Re: gr8Dad]
Dee78 Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
Yes, I can imagine it because it has happened. If the information found it's way onto the wrong person's computer screen, there is the potential that they could use it. It's better to just not put it out there.

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#120501 - 07/03/06 09:23 PM Re: If the words are spoken... [Re: gr8Dad]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Hi gr8Dad,

Good points, but everything that I write is true, so I have nothing to worry about. I do not streeeech the truth, nor do I try to whitewash it. What you don't know is that I am also a minister of the word of GOD. I have nothing to hide therefore I have no reason to lie.
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120502 - 07/03/06 09:27 PM Re: Just Curious [Re: Dee78]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Hi Dee78 actually the owner has given me permission to use that PM as needed, He is an honest person who believes in justice.
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120503 - 07/03/06 09:31 PM I wasn't criticizing you... [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
gr8Dad Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
...I was explaining the law to someone. I know, I been where you are. All I can offer in the way of advice is to be persistent. Don't give up, and DOCUMENT everything. The documentation serves two purposes. One, you will be ULTRA prepared when and if the opportunity presents itself, and if it DOESN'T, you will have something to show you children when they DO reach the age of reason, and come to you asking questions (which they will).

Best of luck to you!
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120504 - 07/03/06 09:32 PM Re: Just Curious [Re: katiefedup]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Hi katiefedup thanks for joining in on the conversation. Sorry that I skipped over you at some point but the conversation was just starting to get good.
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120505 - 07/03/06 09:33 PM Re: Just Curious [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
Dee78 Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
As needed? Does that mean spreading it around the internet? I would think that "as needed" would mean that he didn't mind you using it for your legal battles but to just post his name and address on a message board doesn't justify as "as needed" IMO. I'd still be pissed whether it is available to the public or not, it is only available to those that actually look for it. Now it has been made available to ALOT more people just because you like to throw it around.

It's called having common sense or at least courtesy. Posting his information or even her name on this website does nothing for your cause other than hurt it, IMO. It shows that you really don't care about anyone except yourself.

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#120506 - 07/03/06 09:41 PM Re: I wasn't criticizing you... [Re: gr8Dad]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Thanks gr8Dad which I can imagine that you are. I have been doing exactly that and you do not have to worry about me giving up. I have seen websites all over the net where people have started the fight and then have just disappeared. What ever happened who knows did they win or just give up? I made a promise to my children that I have to keep and will die trying. Of the 65,000 people that know me personally they all know that I would take a bullet for each and everyone of them to keep them from being hurt. When I am tossed into the ring so to speak, I am usually the last one standing at the end.
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120507 - 07/03/06 09:48 PM Give it a REST Dee... [Re: Dee78]
gr8Dad Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
He SAID that the person told him they were okay with it, he GOT their permission, yet you are STILL on him. Give it a rest, let it go. HE isn't bothered by it, the website owner isn't bothered by it, so drop it.
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120508 - 07/03/06 09:51 PM No [Re: gr8Dad]
Dee78 Offline
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Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
I'm not, I'm stating my opinion that I think it is WRONG to throw people's personal information all over the internet just because he has fingers and can type. Just because he doesn't care whether his is out there, it doesn't mean that others want theirs to be plastered on various sites.

I personally don't care about anything else he has to say about his case, it has all been tarnished by his disregard for others. And I'm sure I'm not the only person that thinks that way. He should know that his mudslinging (whether true or false) does nothing to help his case. It just makes people think that his ex might know something about him that he doesn't share with others.

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#120509 - 07/03/06 09:55 PM Yeah, great, you stated your opinion... [Re: Dee78]
gr8Dad Offline
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
...he answered that he UNDERSTOOD your opinion, but he was not concerned. You stated your OPINION again, this time STRONGER. So, understand, we GET it, you disagree, I understand, he understands, I doubt there is a soul on this BOARD that doesn't understand that YOU disagree with something he is doing.

So, now that we all understand your opinion, how about we drop it?
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120510 - 07/03/06 10:00 PM Ah, NOW I get it...sorry... [Re: Dee78]
gr8Dad Offline
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
"I personally don't care about anything else he has to say about his case, it has all been tarnished by his disregard for others."

Oh, so he MUST be lying about the person giving him permission to post it. I see now, he MUST be lying because...uh...well, OH YEAH, because you say so. Sorry, I forgot that was how it worked.

"He should know that his mudslinging (whether true or false) does nothing to help his case."

Right, he should just sit back and be a GOOD little NCP Daddy, pay his support, be GRATEFUL for WHATEVER the court gives him in regards to access to his children, and THANK GOD that he gets what he does.

"It just makes people think that his ex might know something about him that he doesn't share with others."

Sure, maybe you could turn him into a child molester, or something like that. Cause NO ONE EVER got screwed by a bad judge or an unfair system, right? And the best way to FIGHT is to sit there quietly, right?

Not sure what you got against this guy, but it must be BAD, cause you are pulling out all of the stops and just making stuff up to negate his issues.
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120511 - 07/03/06 10:00 PM Re: Just Curious [Re: Dee78]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Ok Dee78 just for you I have edited the post in question, now only me and you and a handful of people know what was there. However as for my X wife, she can fend for herself.
And the children? I believe in GOD, you risk your childrens life when you put them in bed at night, each and everytime they go outside your house they are at risk, when they are in the tub or shower they are at risk, God will take care of them in my absence but if that weren't enough let me tell you this. Between Michigan and Miami I know close to some 48,000 people. I know people on the same street as my children. A little less than 15,000 of those people are bikers, the rest are either military or just plain Christians. All of these people know my family personally and they are doing me great favors as we speak. Of the ones closest ro my children I receive reports sometimes daily. Let me ask you this Are your children that closely guarded or watched?
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120512 - 07/03/06 10:00 PM Re: Yeah, great, you stated your opinion... [Re: gr8Dad]
Dee78 Offline
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Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
He hasn't actually responded to my post that he understands that he is hurting himself by posting their information. He only responded that he was given permission to use the information "as needed".

I realize that you don't like when a fellow father doesn't get their way so you want to take up for him, but can you really say that what he is doing is right? Would you want your ex wife coming on here and telling everyone who you are. There is one person here that knows who you are, would you like for her to give out your information? This was a huge issue on the old boards because people do not like their personal information given out over the internet.

I will drop it when I'm good and ready and the more you tell me to drop it, the longer it will take. You see, I'm not going to bullied by you or anyone else.

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#120513 - 07/03/06 10:02 PM Change it back... [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
gr8Dad Offline
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
...is my advice. If you are going to let ONE person, with some off the wall belief that serial killers are stalking everyone on the net, and the appearance of you NAME on a site increases your likely hood of attack, you are going to have a hard time in court.

You got the permission to use their name, use it. Don't let one bitter woman change what YOU need or want to do.
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120514 - 07/03/06 10:04 PM Re: Just Curious [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
Dee78 Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
Okay so you have alot of internet friends, BIG DEAL. You are right, if God wants to take your children He is going to no matter who is watching after them. But you don't have to facilitate it.

I don't have anything against you. I can tell that you've been through alot, I just don't see that any of this does any good for your case.

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#120515 - 07/03/06 10:05 PM Re: Ah, NOW I get it...sorry... [Re: gr8Dad]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
gr8Dad thanks but if I didn't know better I would almost think that she was either my X wife or one of her relatives they are all ways in my business and they all monitor my blog daily
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120516 - 07/03/06 10:06 PM Re: Ah, NOW I get it...sorry... [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
Dee78 Offline
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Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
Nope. And I'm not bitter. I got everything I asked for in the divorce, I have nothing to be bitter about. I just have a problem with you posting people's personal information all over the internet, it's really that simple.

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#120517 - 07/03/06 10:07 PM I would have NO problem... [Re: Dee78]
gr8Dad Offline
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
...as a matter of fact, I POSTED my personal website, which shows pictures of my family, my home, and where I live, as well as my personal Email and home address. Don't bother me in the least.

Matter of fact, her is it again www.blt.741.com
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120518 - 07/03/06 10:11 PM Re: I would have NO problem... [Re: gr8Dad]
Dee78 Offline
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Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
If you want to post it okay, but if someone does not want their information posted it is not right for someone else to post it around the internet, no matter what the person has done to them. It is an invasion of privacy and it should be illegal.

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#120519 - 07/03/06 10:17 PM So, are you saying that... [Re: Dee78]
gr8Dad Offline
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
...if your ex took the kids, and was making all kinds of hell for you, and wouldn't let you see them, and got a judge to ENFORCE him moving away, and you thought that posting his information would help you, you would STILL respect his privacy?

I mean, come on, you went to court to have his CS increase before he even got his RAISE.
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120520 - 07/03/06 10:20 PM Re: So, are you saying that... [Re: gr8Dad]
Dee78 Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
You might want to think before you speak. I'M the one getting the raise.

And no because by giving out my ex's information I would also be giving out my children's information and my love for them would overcome any bitterness and hatred that I have for my ex.

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#120521 - 07/03/06 10:21 PM Re: I would have NO problem... [Re: Dee78]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
If my X wife wasn't trying to be totally impossible to get along with on this thing I may not have put her out there like that, however this is nothing compared to what I could be capable of Fortunatly I am a civilized person and would never hurt my children by hurting their mother, and even though I am a man of GOD I am also an Outlaw and will alway be an Outlaw.

All people who live subject to other people's laws are victims. People who break laws out of greed, frustration, ignorance or vengeance are victims. People who overturn laws in order to replace them with their own laws are victims. Think about this the next time you break the law, even a minor law like speeding.

Outlaws, however, live beyond the law. They don't merely live beyond the letter of the law, They live beyond the spirit of the law. In a sense, then, they live beyond society and have a common goal, that goal is to turn the tables on the boundaries of society. Outlaws always push the limits and are the first to step over the lines.

When they succeed, they raise the exhilaration of the universe. They even raise it a little bit when they fail. The most important thing is that they keep trying to live free.

We revere the mythos of the Outlaw, the self-conscious romanticism, all Outlaws are photogenic. We like the Outlaw's smirk and the black wardrobe of the Outlaw.

We cherish the way respectable men sneer, and the way young women tremble, when they say "Outlaw."

"When freedom is Outlawed, only Outlaws will be free". The Outlaw lives as if that day were here. You effect the attitude of the Outlaw.

Unwilling to wait for mankind to improve, the Outlaw's boat always sails against the flow of the tide.

Other Criminals, because they're plagued with guilt, will surrender and go quietly.

Outlaws, because they are pure, will never surrender.

Jesus was an Outlaw, and so were many of the important people in the bible.
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120522 - 07/03/06 10:24 PM Re: I would have NO problem... [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
Dee78 Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
And you wonder why you didn't win your case? It doesn't work that way. Flip off the courts and they'll flip you off.

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#120523 - 07/03/06 10:30 PM Re: I would have NO problem... [Re: Dee78]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
They may have won this battle but the war has only begun. I uphold GODS laws not mans laws they mean nothing to me, GOD is what is important I am only going along with this legal stuff for my children's sake. I don't care about the X wife but she is there mother. So she has equal rights but not total rights
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120524 - 07/03/06 10:33 PM Re: I would have NO problem... [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
To be honest, you sound a lot like another guy who use to post here...seanMC. You accuse your ex of sleeping with the judge, and then in the next breath claim to be a man of GOD. I don't know what church you are man of God in, but I sure hope never to be a part of it if you are in charge. Especially with all the slinging of mud you are doing on your ex. What ever happened to "turn the other cheek?"

I didn't notice you posting under your real name, yet you have been very free with your ex's. Why is that? We all only have your word regarding the judge and your ex. How do we know that it isn't just bitterness on your part? Maybe the fact that you have all these "eyes" out there "watching and reporting" the every move of your wife was the reason she was allowed to leave. Does she happen to have a RO out on you?

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#120525 - 07/03/06 10:35 PM Dee, you'll NEVER understand... [Re: Dee78]
gr8Dad Offline
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
...and it isn't completely your fault. You have never been treated like a second class citizen by the court, which is supposed to protect your rights. You have never been removed from your children, and then told you don't matter. You have never been denied rights that you KNOW you are ENTITLED to, and then told just be happy with what you have.

Very few people COULD understand the other side, without being there.
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120526 - 07/03/06 10:38 PM Wow, LOT of guesswork there, huh... [Re: nrvouswrk]
gr8Dad Offline
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
Do you have ANY proof that he is lying? ANYTHING about his story ring untrue? Nope, so you are simply not believing him because of WHO he is, not WHAT he posted.

BTW, his wife WASN'T allowed to leave, she just DID, and then went BACK to court AFTER she moved away.
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120527 - 07/03/06 10:42 PM Re: I would have NO problem... [Re: nrvouswrk]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Excuse me but my real name is on the original post I thought that it was here somewhere as well maybe in the profiles of course you could always goto my blog where my name is everywhere. Now nowhere did I actually accuse her of sleeping with the judge I was mearly suggesting that he must have had a reason for such bad judgement, I couldn't think of any others at the moment. No she has no reason to have a P O out on me and the eyes are not watching her but they are paying attention as to what happens to my children. I could care less what she does with her life as long as it doesn't effect my children.
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120528 - 07/03/06 10:50 PM Re: I would have NO problem... [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Hey gr8Dad thanks for all the help I feel like I am in here swimming with all the sharks. lol. Actually a lawyer just like you is what I really need, you do a great job at feilding those questions way before I even see them.
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120529 - 07/03/06 10:55 PM Re: Wow, LOT of guesswork there, huh... [Re: gr8Dad]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
Yes Gr8Dad, there are a lot of things that ring untrue. He is the ONLY guy who this judge just happened to strip of all his rights? Why him? Woudn't you think that there would be quite a few fellow victims out there who could band together and file a suit against this guy? Don't you think that being a "man of God" might have earned him a few extra points in the custody battle?

As much as I respect your opinions, you have to admit you tend to jump on the "poor NCP" bandwagon with a vengeance especially if it happens to be a male.

Perhaps the error is mine in that the men of God I am use to dealing with are those child molesting Catholic priests, an not the TRUE men of God, like the original poster, who cast aspersions on those who aren't around to defend themselves. Had he done what most of us do my saying "MY ex, or STBX" instead of the name, it would have been one thing, but the fact that he is trying to sully the name of the "mother of his children" is reprehensible at best.

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#120530 - 07/03/06 11:03 PM Re: Wow, LOT of guesswork there, huh... [Re: nrvouswrk]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
You know it is good that you point out these things to me so that I can be better prepared for my battles in court.

Am I the only man that this judge has done this to? No but I am one of the few that will stand up to this system and step over that line to be heard instead of silenced with the attempt to gain an equal position for all of the dads and mothers alike that have been wronged by this same system and this judge.
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120531 - 07/03/06 11:04 PM I take issue with a LOT of what you said... [Re: nrvouswrk]
gr8Dad Offline
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Posts: 31796
...so I will deal with it ONE thing at a time:

"Yes Gr8Dad, there are a lot of things that ring untrue. He is the ONLY guy who this judge just happened to strip of all his rights? Why him? Woudn't you think that there would be quite a few fellow victims out there who could band together and file a suit against this guy?"

Well, since I WAS in his position, I will tell you what the problem with your scenerio is. First, you have to FIND the guys who were ruled against. Tough to do. Second, they have to be SO far down, that there is NO hope, or they hold onto that glimmer that they MIGHT get more time or less restrictions if they don't piss off the judge. Not easy to do.

"Don't you think that being a "man of God" might have earned him a few extra points in the custody battle?"

For God's sake, I HOPE not. Cause then NOT being a man of God would be held AGAINST you. Plus, we do not know WHEN he bacame a man of God, maybe it was AFTER the divorce.

"As much as I respect your opinions, you have to admit you tend to jump on the "poor NCP" bandwagon with a vengeance especially if it happens to be a male."

Just defending him against the whole, "There is NO evidence, but he MUST be guilty of SOMETHING" mentality.

"Perhaps the error is mine in that the men of God I am use to dealing with are those child molesting Catholic priests"

First, I am a Catholic, so I take great offense at your post, as it shows that you are ignorant and blind to the TRUTH. Fact: Priests guilty of molesting children amount to about 3% of the entire population of priest. Coincidentally, the SAME percentage of ANY OTHER OCCUPATION. The reason it was such a huge media deal was because it was the Catholic church.

Also, you seem to be quite hypocritical, saying he should say bad things about people, that he KNOWS are true, yet YOU cast dispersions on the ENTIRE Catholic church based on something that is FALSE.
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120532 - 07/03/06 11:09 PM Re: I take issue with a LOT of what you said... [Re: gr8Dad]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
Good Grief Gr8Dad! My son has only ever gone to Catholic schools and I have never had a problem with any man of God in the Catholic church. I used that reference only because of the mindset these days that all priests are molesters. I would trust my son with a priest over most men of God in other denominations.

For every NCP out there who has been screwed over, there are an equal number of CPs who have been also. You have been on this board long enough to have heard their stories too, yet you don't seem to be as sensitive to their situations. Why is that?

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#120533 - 07/03/06 11:32 PM Re: I take issue with a LOT of what you said... [Re: nrvouswrk]
gr8Dad Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
"For every NCP out there who has been screwed over, there are an equal number of CPs who have been also."

While I have no doubt that SOME CP's get screwed over, a MAJORITY of NCP's get screwed over. And MEN, whether CP or NCP, get screwed over a LOT more than women. Heck, in some states, an unmarried couple AUTOMATICALLY means Mommy gets the kids. Look at VAWA, here is a bill that SPECIFICALLY discriminates against men.

That is why my loyalties lie where they lie.
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120534 - 07/03/06 11:39 PM Re: I take issue with a LOT of what you said... [Re: gr8Dad]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
Fair enough...

I am on the other side of the fence where my ex is given all his rights, yet not expected to meet any of his responsibilites. That seems to be the norm in a lot of the situations here. How is that fair?

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#120535 - 07/03/06 11:42 PM Re: I take issue with a LOT of what you said... [Re: nrvouswrk]
Buckeye Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 7873
Loc: OH
I have to weigh in on this one. Yes, I think more men get screwed in the courts. They have to fight an uphill battle just to even see their kids. If as NCP, they don't pay CS, they can go to jail. If the CP denies visitation, nothing much happens ever.

We all need to work to get the courts to change their policies because they aren't fair to both parents.


Edited by Buckeye (07/03/06 11:44 PM)

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#120536 - 07/03/06 11:47 PM CAN being the key word there [Re: Buckeye]
Dee78 Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
Very few NCPs that the CPs on here deal with have seen the inside of the jail cell. They've been threatened time and time again but they know how to work the system, they know how much they can get away with and when they "make an effort" they aren't punished for their past nonpayment.

It really depends on the situation, when M5's DH was NCP with 50/50, he was denied his parenting time. His ex went to jail AND he got makeup parenting time for the denied time. So some do get punished.

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#120537 - 07/03/06 11:51 PM Re: I take issue with a LOT of what you said... [Re: Buckeye]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
Usually before there is any talk of jail time, the NCP is thousands of dollars in arrears. Very few get jail time for just one or two missed payments, any more than the CP gets jail time for a few missed visitations.

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#120538 - 07/03/06 11:56 PM Re: So, are you saying that... [Re: Dee78]
MamaKitty Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 1632
Loc: California
[quote]You might want to think before you speak. I'M the one getting the raise.

And no because by giving out my ex's information I would also be giving out my children's information and my love for them would overcome any bitterness and hatred that I have for my ex. [/quote]

Absolutely. Also, until my children (or their peers) are old enough to understand, I'd hate for them to come across something identifying their father, and saying nasty things about him, no matter how true they may be.

You learn something new every day.
So I'll assume the lies he said about me to the neighbors, his atty, the mediator, etc., was slandering me.
And the written lies he submitted to his atty, the mediator and the court would be considered libelling(sp?) me.

And that they'd have merit to be sued over, since (in my opinion) I've suffered a pretty severe, if temporary loss as a result. Certainly some kind of damage.

I am curious how anyone could have 65k close personal friends who also know their whole family. Not to mention (don't whack me over the head, please!)how having that many friends couldn't have somehow helped one's case.
In contrast to the few friends and family I have in comparison makes me feel fairly insignificant, and as if I'm chasing rainbows. How does one get that many friends, and yet still be searching for more.... what could any possible new internet friends provide that the first 65k couldn't? I'm tempted to ask for any leftovers.

Finally.... yes, it was odd to have the references to possible sexual favours being lent (now wouldn't that be libel, or does it not count if it's speculation?)by your exwife towards the court... be so near statements of being a man of god.
I'm suggesting those two topics be separated by a few more words..?

c

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#120539 - 07/04/06 12:05 AM But consider what you TRULY lose... [Re: nrvouswrk]
gr8Dad Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
You are not given the child support, but it is still owed. Adn yes, he is VERY wrong for not paying.

But consider how the NCP, with a difficult CP, gets screwed. He loses YEARS with the children. It CANNOT be made up, and the courts don't even TRY. Future relationships are destroyed, children are mangled. None of this can EVER be completely repaired.
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120540 - 07/04/06 12:43 AM Re: So, are you saying that... [Re: MamaKitty]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
I have seen this one before actually back in 1995 when I met my wife our wedding reception lasted almost a week I know that this will require an explaination you see my father was a Lt Col in the US Army, he was there for nearly 35.5 years as a result I was an Army brat for atleast 16 of those years. We moved around quite a bit and I was a very popular kid only because I used to get into more trouble than anyone else of course the DoD cops used to only take me to my dad but that was bad enough. As I said I was a very popular kid where ever I went, I had everything and I could do anything and I was very smart and good looking too. In 1968 the song me and my Bobby McGee was put out by Janis Joplin and since my name was Bobby Magee same name different spelling, I also got a lot of play with the women, not that i didn't get that anyway. Before I was even 16 years old, my little black book had over something like 2200 names and numbers. I have done it all or just about. and everywhere I went or go today I meet with people and we almost always become good friends, there have always been a few that don't come around as quick as most but then not everybody likes everyone in the beginning. I am 50 now my X wife is 30 my children are 9 and 4 and 26 from the first wife who was a divorcee when I met her and after we were married and she had my son she left and went back to her husband and they lived happier ever after and I raised my son all by myself from the time he was 5 days old with out a dime from his mother and until he was 18 she never wanted to see him either, but that is another story but we are still good friends including her husband. I am still friends with all of these same people at least the ones that are still alive today. Anyway we surely couldn't invite that many people to the wedding and many were from out of state. So we set up a different reception thru out several different states from Michigan to Florida each day was a different party it took nine days to get to Florida Anyway thats my story, I stay in touch with my friends and they with me
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120541 - 07/04/06 01:00 AM Re: I take issue with a LOT of what you said... [Re: nrvouswrk]
Miranda Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
[quote] I would trust my son with a priest over most men of God in other denominations.

[/quote]



Whhhhaattt? That sounded kind of weird to me, IMHO.
_________________________
13.1...because I am only half crazy!

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#120542 - 07/04/06 01:02 AM Along the lines of what GD said......... [Re: gr8Dad]
Gecko Offline
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Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 20602
Loc: Third rock from the sun
If I don't pay child support...it will accrue (with interest mind you) in the form of arrearages and will essentially be due and payable until the day I day or it is paid off...whichever comes first.

If I am denied Parenting Time, it...TIME...does NOT accrue...it's gone. It will take several times before a Judge BEFORE anything...if at all..is done. At BEST...the Judge will order "make-up" time, but how do you "make-up" for say...six weeks of Summer Parenting Time? Sprinkle the 42 days "owed" throughout the year?

My ex owes me approximately 1,095 days with our oldest daughter...she is almost 21. Nobody gives a flying f--k about that time, but they sure as hell do care about the CS I may owe.

He owes me approximately 1,314 days with the other two; youngest daughter will be 18 in a year, son will be 18 in a year and half. Knowing the ex...that number is going up. Please...someone tell me how someone can "make-up" what I've lost? I want to hear how child support is MORE important than parenting time?
_________________________
If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!

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#120543 - 07/04/06 01:08 AM Re: Along the lines of what GD said......... [Re: Gecko]
katiefedup Offline
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<If I don't pay child support...it will accrue (with interest mind you) in the form of arrearages and will essentially be due and payable until the day I day or it is paid off...whichever comes first.>

And????????

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#120544 - 07/04/06 01:08 AM Re: I take issue with a LOT of what you said... [Re: Miranda]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
Hello Miranda Thanks for drop'n in. Would that be Lackland, been there nice place. for privacy reasons I don't expect an answer
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120545 - 07/04/06 01:10 AM Re: Along the lines of what GD said......... [Re: Gecko]
katiefedup Offline
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Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 11669
<I want to hear how child support is MORE important than parenting time? >

IT, the CS you are refering to, helps raise the child in a decent manner. IT is suspose to give a child a better life. Lets not get into that debate!

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#120546 - 07/04/06 01:19 AM Children raised in poverty... [Re: katiefedup]
gr8Dad Offline
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...are MUCH more successful than children raised with one parent removed from their lives. Your right, there is NO debate, parenting time is MUCH more important than child support.

BTW, you don't get any child support, are your children indecent and have a crappy life?
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120547 - 07/04/06 01:25 AM Child Support you say? [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
How many of you have to pay $648.00 a week and are unemployed?

Well according to the Macomb County Friend of the Court this is the amount that I am expected to pay for two children.

You say whoa, why is that? Between the years of 1995 and 1999 I was making extremely good money. My wife made sure that the Macomb County Friend of the Court had access to my income tax reports for those years. Even though I was now unemployed according to them I was capable of making this amount and therefore the Michigan State Guidlines did not apply.

I have been fighting this one for over two years and they will not budge. They claim that I am not meeting the required payments on purpose, And I have been jailed three times for contempt of court because of it.

According to the judge He didn't care if I had to pick up bottles on the side of the street to make up the difference. I said well that's a heck of a lot of bottles. That got me 14 days in the Macomb County Jail
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120548 - 07/04/06 01:25 AM Re: But consider what you TRULY lose... [Re: gr8Dad]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
I agree with you here 100%. That is why even though my son can't stand his dad, he is a falling down drunk, when he is sober, I make the kid see him.

I have also gotten a lot of very good insight from the NCPs here as to what bugs them with the CPs. Some examples being not packing the right clothes or having the child dressed correctly. We are also ALWAYS ready and on time for ALL visitation as well as ALL phone calls being returned.

Beleive me, I don't want to be so accomodating, but I am. I wish the EX played as fairly.

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#120549 - 07/04/06 01:31 AM Re: I take issue with a LOT of what you said... [Re: Miranda]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
We have some very "quirkly" men of God in my neck of the woods. More religious fanatics than what you would consider true ministers. The men I was refering to always make me uneasy when I am around them. I have never felt that way around a priest. I was actually working today and trying to type in between doing stats and seeing clients. Not everything came out the way I meant it...:)

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#120550 - 07/04/06 02:03 AM Re: Children raised in poverty... [Re: gr8Dad]
katiefedup Offline
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please cite your resource!

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#120551 - 07/04/06 02:19 AM Do you REALLY need a source... [Re: katiefedup]
gr8Dad Offline
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...to show that money is more important than having two parents?

I will look for the source if you can HONESTLY tell me that YOUR kids, who get no child support, are suffering more than children who GET child support, but have a CP that denies them contact with the other parent.
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120552 - 07/04/06 02:27 AM Re: Do you REALLY need a source... [Re: gr8Dad]
katiefedup Offline
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I have no idea of the stats. But, you threw an rather strong one out there. I would like to know the source that states that children of poverty are more sucessfully in their adult life, than children of single parent homes. I also recall, that you once stated that children living with a male parent is more sucessful than living with the mother. If you are going to throw out such statements then back it up. BTW, if I was recieving child support my daughter's life would be better, obviously. I wouldn't have to work so much, taking on extra duties at work after hours.

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#120553 - 07/04/06 02:33 AM I Understand, You Don't Know Me [Re: katiefedup]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
To all of you that have posted here today. I know that you do not know me, so why would I expect you to believe what it is that you are being told.

This whole affair has taken quite a toll on me. I am used to having people believe what I say. I can however understand your reasoning. I suppose that if I were you, after hearing so many tales of horror that seemed one-sided I might be leary myself.

So I would like to ask you, if you will take just 2 minutes of your time to click the link below. It will take you to my church blog.

If after having a look around you feel the same as you do now, let me know and I will leave here never to return.

Because of reasons of involvement in the court hearing that began in November I have temporarily stopped posting there because court and church do not go well together.

My last post was on December 14, 2005.

Thank you very much for your time in advance.

http://thewordofgod.modblog.com/
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120554 - 07/04/06 02:49 AM Re: I Understand, You Don't Know Me [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
katiefedup Offline
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I was posting to gr8dad. I am just waiting to hear his outlandish source. I have always heard of the "Circle of Poverty." Gr8dad know better.

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#120555 - 07/04/06 02:55 AM No katie, YOU know better... [Re: katiefedup]
gr8Dad Offline
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If you don't get child support, you make do. You work harder, you do WHATEVER it takes. The kids grow up FINE. Hell, we don't even REALLY know what paverty IS in this country. We DRIVE to the welfare office.

Compare that to a CP that refuses to, without good reason, allow the children to see the other parent. These children grow up MISSING something, it affects future relationships. Girls tend to marry guys who are cold and distant, and boys grow up without a dominant role model (either sex).

So tell me AGAIN how much WORSE it is to NOT pay support?

And WHILE we are on the subject, with CS, you get INTEREST and PENALTIES. With parenting time, you MIGHT get make up time, but there is NO "interest", no EXTRA time to make up for the loss. ANd even if you DO get make up time, how do you replace a summer with your 5 year old when the kid is 15??

So you can go blow smoke up someone elses ass, cause you KNOW I am right.
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120556 - 07/04/06 03:04 AM Re: No katie, YOU know better... [Re: gr8Dad]
katiefedup Offline
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LOL, my, you have been on quite the tangent today. Did you have a bad night last night? BTW, I would have gladly shared custody with the a-hole. But, because he didn't want that, I worked longer hours than I should have. I missed out on award assemblies, Holiday programs and time in the classroom with my daughter. Still waiting for your stats that you proclaimed to be truth. I was living in poverty at one point, yet, unlike you, I didn't drive to the welfare office~

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#120557 - 07/04/06 03:05 AM Oh look, the food stamp issue AGAIN... [Re: katiefedup]
gr8Dad Offline
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...what a SHOCKER, back katie into a corner, and she brings up old news. I guess the next thing will be the shower, right?

You want stats, YOU post one in OPPOSITION (That means against) to my statement, and I will show you the truth.


Edited by gr8Dad (07/04/06 03:06 AM)
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120558 - 07/04/06 03:25 AM Re: Oh look, the food stamp issue AGAIN... [Re: gr8Dad]
katiefedup Offline
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You brought up a false sat! Face it, you are WRONG again! Children raised in poverty do better than children raised in single family homes!!! If your lies are true, poverty would eventually die out! LMAO!

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#120559 - 07/04/06 03:27 AM Re: Oh look, the food stamp issue AGAIN... [Re: katiefedup]
katiefedup Offline
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BTW YOU said we don't know poverty in this country. "We" drive to the welfare office. Just wanted to be clear, it's not "We!"

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#120560 - 07/04/06 03:30 AM Re: Oh look, the food stamp issue AGAIN... [Re: gr8Dad]
katiefedup Offline
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<You want stats, YOU post one in OPPOSITION (That means against) to my statement, and I will show you the truth.>
YOU brought it up, you have the burdon of proof! Show me just one ity bity stat on YOUR claim! The problem is that you once again spoke out in anger, with nothing to back it up!

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#120561 - 07/04/06 03:33 AM Re: I take issue with a LOT of what you said... [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
Miranda Offline
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Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 20822
Loc: North of Mexico
[quote]Hello Miranda Thanks for drop'n in. Would that be Lackland, been there nice place. for privacy reasons I don't expect an answer [/quote]

Nope not at Lackland...was there 1992-94 though and yes it still is a nice place.
_________________________
13.1...because I am only half crazy!

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#120562 - 07/04/06 03:50 AM Re: Children raised in poverty... [Re: gr8Dad]
katiefedup Offline
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Registered: 10/27/05
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"Children raised in poverty ...are MUCH more successful than children raised with one parent removed from their lives."

Ummmm, the government stat's tell a different story than yours Gr8dad! Did you know that 76% of children stay in poverty for the rest of their lives and so on and so on and so on. where are these "Much" children?

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#120563 - 07/04/06 04:16 AM Well, after reading your drivel... [Re: katiefedup]
gr8Dad Offline
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
...I am not surprised that you think because a child STAYS in poverty, they are not "better off". I am talking about being HAPPY in life. Having good relationships, happy families, good mental health, and happy children. But, since you cannot see past "money=better off", you probably DON'T understand what the hell I am talking about.

Get some life experience, learn some things, then come back and talk like a big person, 'kay?
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120564 - 07/04/06 04:42 AM Re: Well, after reading your drivel... [Re: gr8Dad]
katiefedup Offline
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Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 11669
You said MUCH more sucessful! I doubt ANYBODY living in a cycle of poverty would report feeling 'Much " sucess in life. Again, back to your orginal assinine post. Where did you get your information? You specifically said children of poverty are "MUCH more sucessful!"
Then you go on to state
"Having good relationships, happy families, good mental health, and happy children!"
Are you DRUNK? People in poverty have a much higher rate of broken homes, abuse and a prison rate. I guess if that makes you sucessful/ happy, go for it! I dare you to find 10%, hell lets say 60% since you said "much more",people that grew up in poverty, and lives life in poverty as an adult that feel sucessful, more sucessful, than a child living with a single parent, not in poverty. Again, where did you get your stats? You don't have the "TRUTH" that you speak of!

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#120565 - 07/04/06 05:13 AM Re: Well, after reading your drivel... [Re: katiefedup]
Outlaw_Wolf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 82
Loc: St. Clair County, Michigan
katiefedup I have been reading this arguement between you both for a bit now. I have excellant recall and I remembered seeing this statement about the poverty issue in which gr8Dad refers to. It took me a few minutes to locate it but here is the quote from the page and the url for the page that it was on.

"Children raised in poverty with both parents in the home are much more likely to succeed in later life than children raised in poverty by a mother alone.

Children need their father for all kinds of fundamental, emotional reasons. Boys need rough and tumble play, and a male role model. Girls need fathers to experience a loving relationship with a man. This is important for girls when they start looking for a mate, Dr. Horn says, "because if they have the expectation that a man should be like dad, they will be more likely to hold out for that positive model."

When we find absent fathers, judges should look at the total picture of paternal neglect, not just the financial aspects. They should provide incentives to fathers to share themselves with their children, as well as money. "

Now the page that I found this on contains other information as well but I am almost positive that I also seen this elsewhere as well

http://www.majorcox.com/columns/father10.htm

Sorry it took so long to come thru for you gr8Dad but you were doing such a good job stalling I hated to stop you

I also remember seeing an article by Dr. Wade F. Horn PhD who is a clinical child psychologist and the President of the National Fatherhood Initiative, but I haven't foind it yet
_________________________
The Outlaw Wolf - real name - Robert Magee

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#120566 - 07/04/06 05:35 AM To Outlaw Wolf [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
Gecko Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 20602
Loc: Third rock from the sun
I read that article earlier...interesting.

From the US Department of Health & Human Services. Administration for Children & Families: "Although there are exceptions, children raised in single-parent families are at greater risk of living in poverty and of developing social, behavioral, and academic problems than are children raised in married-parent families."

From The Journal of the American Medical Association: "Children raised in poverty can do well in school and later in life, but they face many more obstacles than children reared in wealthier homes."

From the American Psychological Association, Report to the U.S. Commission on Child and Family Welfare: "Children raised in single parent families are at greater risk for juvenile delinquency, teen pregnancy, poor grades, drugs, dropping out of school, and other trouble. These risks occur even after factoring in differences in income."
_________________________
If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!

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#120567 - 07/04/06 05:41 AM Re: Well, after reading your drivel... [Re: gr8Dad]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
Just because a child has two parents doesn't make them happier and better off than those who have one. Believe me, there are a vast amount of kids who should be barred from ever having to be subjected to one or both of their parents. So I am with Katie in disagreeing with you.

Many of the parents who come into the welfare office where I work may drive in, but it is amazing how their cars even make it that far. In order to qualify for the program I run, their car can't be worth more than $1500. You can imagine what kind of vehicle you get for that amount!

Just because someone has inadvertently contributed a sperm or an egg, doesn't mean they are a benifit to their child's life. You would be amazed at how many are more of a detriment and should be barred from any and all contact with them.

As for your point about interst on unpaid support...Not every one who is ordered to pay support does so through the CSE. A vast majority are on the "Honor" system. It is only when that fails that most of us are forced to seek a remedy where the choice to pay or not to pay isn't as much of an option.

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#120568 - 07/04/06 05:46 AM Re: It Couldn't Be Clearer... [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
This post just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt why the judge in question made the ruling he did... After reading it, I think if anything, he was on the generous side...

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#120569 - 07/04/06 06:12 AM Re: Well, after reading your drivel... [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
katiefedup Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 11669
sorry, where is that post number?

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#120570 - 07/04/06 06:15 AM Re: Well, after reading your drivel... [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
katiefedup Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 11669

here is the post that I was referencing!
Children raised in poverty... [Re: katiefedup]
#122795 - 07/03/06 09:19 PM (131.17.129.22) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



...are MUCH more successful than children raised with one parent removed from their lives

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#120571 - 07/04/06 06:16 AM Re: Well, after reading your drivel... [Re: katiefedup]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
#122736 if you are asking me for the one I was refering to.

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#120572 - 07/04/06 06:18 AM Re: Well, after reading your drivel... [Re: Outlaw_Wolf]
katiefedup Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 11669
<"Children raised in poverty with both parents in the home are much more likely to succeed in later life than children raised in poverty by a mother alone.> Ummmmm, did gr8dad say that? Your recall is not so good! LOL

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#120573 - 07/04/06 06:20 AM Re: Well, after reading your drivel... [Re: nrvouswrk]
katiefedup Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 11669
that was YOUR post!!!!!!!

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#120574 - 07/04/06 06:21 AM Re: Well, after reading your drivel... [Re: katiefedup]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
They say you can prove anything with either a Bible passage or a statistic...

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#120575 - 07/04/06 06:24 AM To Nrvouswrk [Re: nrvouswrk]
Gecko Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 20602
Loc: Third rock from the sun
Just because a child has two parents doesn't make them happier and better off than those who have one. Believe me, there are a vast amount of kids who should be barred from ever having to be subjected to one or both of their parents.

---> There is no disputing that there are "bad" parents out there, but we're not talking about them...we're talking about "average" parents...good moms, good dads and there is no disputing that it's better to have BOTH parents in a child's life, than just one.

In order to qualify for the program I run, their car can't be worth more than $1500. You can imagine what kind of vehicle you get for that amount!

---> Excuse me, but I paid $1,300 for my '89 GMC Truck four years ago and according to my mechanic who thoroughly checked it out, I got a sweet deal.

As for your point about interst on unpaid support...Not every one who is ordered to pay support does so through the CSE. A vast majority are on the "Honor" system.

---> LMAO. Tthe "vast majority" PAY through CSE...whether it is through self-pay or wage withholding. The only time an NCP is allowed to direct pay to a CP is if BOTH agree.
_________________________
If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!

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#120576 - 07/04/06 06:24 AM A preacher was telling a small group... [Re: nrvouswrk]
gr8Dad Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 31796
...of men that the bible covers EVERY aspect of life. One of the men asked, jokingly, about PMS. The preacher replied, "Here" and he flips open the book, finds a page ad says, "...And Mary rode Joseph's ass all the way to Bethlahem..."
_________________________
Why give a "senior" discount, they have had plenty of time to raise the money...

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#120577 - 07/04/06 06:26 AM Re: Well, after reading your drivel... [Re: katiefedup]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
No that was the Outlaw's...

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#120578 - 07/04/06 06:29 AM Re: To Nrvouswrk [Re: Gecko]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
Not in Orange County. The child support is only set up through the CSE if you call and request the application. It is not automatically set up with them. The CP opens the case themselves.

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#120579 - 07/04/06 06:33 AM Re: A preacher was telling a small group... [Re: gr8Dad]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
LOL!!!!

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#120580 - 07/04/06 06:34 AM Re: To Nrvouswrk [Re: nrvouswrk]
Gecko Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/04
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Loc: Third rock from the sun
In Arizona...wage withholding is mandatory unless the Judge allows for direct pay upon the agreement of BOTH parties.

In Oregon...unless the Judge allows for direct pay upon the agreement of BOTH parties...ALL payments go through CSE, even if there is no "wage withholding" order. The CP can at any time, request that CSE do a wage withholding...NCP doesn't have to have "arrears".
_________________________
If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!

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#120581 - 07/04/06 09:53 AM Re: Well, after reading your drivel... [Re: nrvouswrk]
Buckeye Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 7873
Loc: OH
$1,500 cars - well, that would be me with at least one of my cars. An uninsured motorist just hit it in the side, $2,500 worth of damage, I don't even know what the value of the car is but I know it isn't $2,500 since it is 11 years old. We buy them new and drive them into the ground. When we "trade" them in, we get $200 because we have good tires.

If the car is running good, I don't need a new one.

I also have a 29 year old VW camper that we go all over the country in. It is a matter of pride to keep it up and running.

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#120582 - 07/04/06 10:11 AM Re: A preacher was telling a small group... [Re: nrvouswrk]
Buckeye Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 7873
Loc: OH
One other thing, there are all kinds of resources available for the CP when the NCP doesn't pay. The state gets involved, the Federal government gets involved by means of a tax snatch.

But, the NCP doesn't have any one to help them when the CP doesn't allow visitation. Even the police won't do anything.

So, don't even go there by saying that the courts and laws are not biased. I'm not saying they are biased regarding female/males but they are certainly biased regarding CP/NCP.

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#120583 - 07/04/06 11:11 AM Re: To Nrvouswrk [Re: nrvouswrk]
Dee78 Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
That's how it works here. Ex was ordered to pay through the state but never did, it wasn't until I called to set up an account with CSE that they actually enforced it.

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#120584 - 07/04/06 11:17 AM Re: To Nrvouswrk [Re: Dee78]
Buckeye Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 12/08/05
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Loc: OH
In my state, all CS money has to be paid through the state - either as garnishment or voluntary payments.

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#120585 - 07/04/06 11:32 AM Re: To Nrvouswrk [Re: Buckeye]
Dee78 Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/05
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Loc: TN
Yeah, that's what they say. It has to be ordered to be paid through the state but if it isn't and neither party brings it to anyone's attention (or the CP isn't on any assistance), then it doesn't actually get enforced. We went for 1 1/2 years with him just paying me directly, when I filed I had to file an affidavit of direct pay.

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#120586 - 07/04/06 01:09 PM Re: Well, after reading your drivel... [Re: Buckeye]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
The County I live in is know for its high income. It is hard for our clients to qualify if they own a car. There may be places where you can find them still running for $1500, but not here.

As for the tax intercepts...The IRS is also after my ex for him not paying them the taxes he owes. They too had a garnishment order out on him but when it was discovered that there was one for CS also, theirs was dropped because there could only be one garnishment. This is what the ex told me. I am not sure if it is true or not.

What I do know is that very rarely does a month go by where the full support he was ordered to pay is paid. Months go by without a cent being collected and yet nothing is done to encourage it.

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#120587 - 07/04/06 02:09 PM Re: Well, after reading your drivel... [Re: nrvouswrk]
Buckeye Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 7873
Loc: OH
My SIL has had months go by where BM has denied visitation and nothing is done to encourage that either.

The whole system is broken and I don't know that anybody knows how to fix it.


Edited by Buckeye (07/04/06 02:56 PM)

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#120588 - 07/04/06 03:55 PM To Nrvouswrk [Re: nrvouswrk]
Gecko Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 20602
Loc: Third rock from the sun
As for the tax intercepts...The IRS is also after my ex for him not paying them the taxes he owes. They too had a garnishment order out on him but when it was discovered that there was one for CS also, theirs was dropped because there could only be one garnishment. This is what the ex told me. I am not sure if it is true or not.

---> It's not. Well not totally.

---> The US Department of Labor in accordance with the Title III, Consumer Credit Protection Act (CCPA)
(15 USC §1671 et seq.(PDF); 29 CFR Part 870), has some pretty strict laws on wage garnishments.

1. There is a limit to the amount of "disposable" earnings (gross less federal, state and local taxes, Social Security, unemployment insurance, and state employee retirement systems) that can be garishished regardess of how many garnishments are accessed and that is 25%.

2. The exception to the above is child support and alimony wage withholding orders, bankruptcy court orders and debts due for federal and state taxes.

When it comes to child support and alimony, the maximum amount that can be withheld ranges from 50 to 65% of "disposable" earnings and is dependent on whether your have dependents and arrearages.

3. As to who's garnishment/wage withholding order is paid first, federal THEN state law governs that of which child support and alimony wage withholding orders have priority with your general creditor being last.

4. You can have multiple garnishment/wage withholding orders. To give you an example of how this is handled, let's say you have wage withholding order for child support in the amount of $400 and a garnishment order for ABC Credit Card in the amount of $6,000.

a. You earn $20/hour and are paid bi-monthly; gross less taxes is $1,200 x 25% is $300. You would withhold $200 for child support and garnish $100 for ABC Credit Card.

b. You earn $10/hour and are paid bi-monthly; gross less taxes is $680 x 25% is $170. You would withhold $200 for child support*** and garnish $0 ABC Credit Card.

*** - Remember...federal law allows you to take up to 65% of disposable earnings for child support and alimony.
_________________________
If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!

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#120589 - 07/05/06 03:03 AM Re: To Nrvouswrk [Re: Gecko]
nrvouswrk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2362
That makes things clearer. I never ask him about his finances. He just happened to mention once that the IRS also had a garnishment out on him but withdrew it because of the child support one. I never asked for any more details.

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