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#199408 - 02/28/07 04:44 AM Re: What is CS supposed to cover? [Re: Gecko]
almostheaven Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
However, you wouldnt' have to have car insurance for a licensed 16 yo driver if you didn't have a 16 yo in your home and an insurance company requiring they be listed on the policy or placing you in a higher risk category because of the teen. Even some homeowners policies increase with teens, because of higher risk.
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#199409 - 02/28/07 12:16 PM Re: What is CS supposed to cover? [Re: almostheaven]
Redlegg Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/06
Posts: 27903
If a 16 year old wants to drive, he can pay for his own seperate insurance policy. I will not put him on mine for the exact reason you say, the risk is unacceptable. As for the home owners insurance, you never hear about it going down when the kids leave the house, I would have a serious talk with another agent if kids in the house are making my homeowners more expensive. A childs share of the rent, how exactly do you figure a childs share of the rent, his income potential, how do you do it when you are married, what is the child responsible for when it comes to paying rent. You have to have a place to live regardles of whether you have a child or not. I know alot of times it helps pay the rent, or it frees up some money in one place and allows a different need to be met, or even maybe an extra, but the childs portion of the rent just sounds crazy.

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#199410 - 02/28/07 06:48 PM Re: What is CS supposed to cover? [Re: Redlegg]
NancyD Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 2117
Loc: New York
Child's portion of the rent is NOT crazy if there is not 50/50 parenting, and not that hard to figure.

As a single person, I could, and did, live in a studio apartment. However as a single parent, I could not live in an area that small. I would need at least a one-bedroom, and practically speaking, a two-bedroom place. The price of studio apartments in my area are @$900 (for a dingey finished basement). The price of one-bedroom apts are @1500+, and two bedroom apts are $1900+. So there is easily a $600 difference per month in what I would have to pay for living space for my child. I would expect 1/2 of that to be covered by CS from my ex.

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#199411 - 02/28/07 07:58 PM Re: What is CS supposed to cover? [Re: Redlegg]
almostheaven Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
With some companies, it doesn't matter if the teen WANTS to drive or not. Just that they are a licensed driver.
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Char Fox

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#199412 - 02/28/07 08:01 PM Re: What is CS supposed to cover? [Re: Redlegg]
almostheaven Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;A childs share of the rent, how exactly do you figure a childs share of the rent, his income potential, how do you do it when you are married, what is the child responsible for when it comes to paying rent. You have to have a place to live regardles of whether you have a child or not. I know alot of times it helps pay the rent, or it frees up some money in one place and allows a different need to be met, or even maybe an extra, but the childs portion of the rent just sounds crazy.&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

It does? Well when I was married, my ex and I rented a ONE bedroom duplex. When my daughter was 2, I was legally REQUIRED to put her in her own room. She couldn't share a room with me. Doing so made my rent increase $50. A one BR was $50 cheaper. In some instances, a two BR increases by $100 and sometimes even more, depending on the COL in the area.

Same thing with owning. If you buy a house BASED on having children...you choose an area with safer living conditions, better schools, and a house with more bedrooms and yard, and that ends up costing you more than it would if you were childless and had none of those considerations, the child(ren) has cost you more.
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Char Fox

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#199413 - 02/28/07 08:10 PM Re: What is CS supposed to cover? [Re: almostheaven]
Avaya Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 9850
Loc: Arkansas
Folks, CS is supposed to pay for the CUSTODIAL parent's so-called increase in rent, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER PARENT? The other parent, even if they have EOWE visitation STILL has to provide living space for that child. They get to PAY for BM to put a roof over the kid's head (with NO say in the appropriateness of said roof!) AND PAY for a roof at their own house. Deliberately allocating CS to living expenses is just plain silly IMO. CP doesn't pay extra for a place to live because they are caring for DAD'S child, they're paying extra because THEY have a child. You act like the NCP has to pay for the extra and the CP pays nothing toward the increase!
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#199414 - 02/28/07 08:24 PM Re: What is CS supposed to cover? [Re: Avaya]
NancyD Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 2117
Loc: New York
No they don't have to provide the same space if the child is there for a fraction of the time. And in the case of my ex, it's a very small fraction. So he has the kids sleep in the couch or floor. He doesn't provide any storage space for them for clothing, nick-nacks. He could move to another area and have more space, but he has reasons why he is living where he is and they don't involve the children.

And they don't have to live in a high-tax school district since the child is going to school where the CP resides.

My ex's car insurance won't go up when/if our chldren get their driver's license, only mine because it is my address that will be on their driver's license and my car they will be driving, not his.

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#199415 - 02/28/07 08:30 PM Sometimes they don't... [Re: Avaya]
almostheaven Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
Should I make the claim that you act like they ALWAYS have to pay? I've never made any claim that NCPs never have that same increase. But most of the CPs here don't deal with that. My NCP has NEVER had to provide a room for his daughter because?...her never wanted to see her. And some here have exes that don't provide rooms and just have their kids sleep on the couch or floor. If they provide the room, I'm sure the CS could be put to use on other things. But if you have increased costs for the child THAT is what the NCP's CS is supposed to cover part of. And who knows, THEIR portion of extra room and board MAY have been calculated into the guidelines. We don't know what all was considered in setting the figures.
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#199416 - 02/28/07 11:19 PM Re: Sometimes they don't... [Re: almostheaven]
Redlegg Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/06
Posts: 27903
What conditions exist as far as numbers of children after the divorce that didn't before the divorce, you would have been legally required to provide that room regardless. Whether or not the NCP chooses to see their children is not the issue, because CPs can be just as cruel and they can beat their kids. You can what if this to death, but the truth of the matter is that the same number of children existed before the divorce as they did after, and you are legally required to spend more money on your children to provide them rooms whether your divorced or not(where ever that law exists). Of course children cost more than not having children, but how does that change after divorce. If you buy a house when your planning a child, and oops you have twins, do you have to go buy a new house in two years or do they take a child away or give you tickets you can't pay anyways, because if you could you would get a bigger apt. I mean come on, next you will be having realtors poking holes in condoms just to drum up business. You can only afford what you can afford. Children cost the same if you are married or if you are divorced, you don't figure a childs "share" of the rent when your married, you know they cost more. Once your divorced, you have to figure out who is going to pay that cost. You don't just jump from being a single person to being a single parent, you had to have been a parent before, what if the NCP kept the marital house, and there was an extra bedroom, is that figured into the CS, is the NCP paying too much becuase there is a third bedroom and should they pay for this excess. I understand a two bedroom apt/house costs more than a one bedroom, but CS is for the child(ren) and their living conditions should not change too much, but what if you have two girls they can share a room and CS should not be higher? They eat more, need more clothes. I just don't think you can pinpoint a childs share of the rent, do the guidelines take into account sex, I mean a daughter probably uses more clothes than a son and could even eat less. There are so many variables, it is impossible to figure all scenarios.

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#199417 - 02/28/07 11:39 PM Re: Sometimes they don't... [Re: almostheaven]
Gecko Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 20602
Loc: Third rock from the sun
And who knows, THEIR portion of extra room and board MAY have been calculated into the guidelines.

---&gt; Actually not. Child support guidelines are "based on expenditures for children in intact households". In other words...they only consider the cost in ONE home, NOT two. Now while the courts HAVE acknowledge that through the excerise of Parenting Time, "a portion of the costs
for children normally expended by the custodial parent shifts to the non-custodial parent" and said "costs" are very limited. Example...NCP has kids 30% of the time, their adjustment is NOT 30%...it's 16.1%; 35% of the time, it's 19.5%; 40% of the time, it's 30.7%.

---&gt; I have three kids, CS is $574; let's say I get them 30% of the time...I would get a "credit" of $92. Even eating at home...I'm looking at $20 a day to feed three kids three meals x 10 days a month...that's $200 JUST for food. You do the math.

---&gt; Unless the parents have 50/50 (or 55/45), the courts do NOT consider "room" in the OP's house.

NOTE: The above comes from the Superior Court of Arizona and is for 2007.

We don't know what all was considered in setting the figures.

---&gt; I do.
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