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#219951 - 04/23/07 03:51 AM After School Care
061212 Offline
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Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 10
My boyfriend has just had his child support modified. For the next four months it will be 900+ because his child is in daycare. After, four months it will reduce to 500. Now, the ex is looking into after school care, will he be obligated to pay for that care? It is unfair because of the increase we cannot send our own daughter to daycare so we will have to wait. At the moment he is unable to contribute to her current care because of his obligation to his other child. Please help!

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#219952 - 04/23/07 03:57 AM Re: After School Care [Re: 061212]
youngatheart Offline
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Registered: 09/04/05
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He should have to pay for aftercare, but it depends on how the order is worded. You need to read it. Why do you think he shouldn't be liable for part of it?

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#219953 - 04/23/07 06:27 AM Re: After School Care [Re: 061212]
cincsu Offline
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Loc: residence in AZ, case in CA
it probably depends on your state, but in CA both parents are obligated to pay 1/2 of daycare so the other parent can work.

that means, if the child has to go to aftercare so the mom can work he will probably have to pay 1/2 of the aftercare as well. aftercare is likely 1/4 of normal daycare, though.
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#219954 - 04/23/07 11:52 AM Re: After School Care [Re: cincsu]
Karenx31 Offline
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Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 20
Loc: kentucky
in my state u have to pay according to your income & they do take other children into consideration 2

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#219955 - 04/23/07 01:44 PM Re: After School Care [Re: 061212]
NancyD Offline
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Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 2118
Loc: New York
If the aftercare is needed because the CP is working, then yes, the NCP would be responsible for half. It's just another form of "daycare".

There are different kinds of afterschool care programs available. I used the YMCA's program which was run right in my children's school—it had a waiting list because it was so popular. There were also a few neighborhood SAHMom's who had small businesses doing this. Lately, the bigger, national chain businesses have moved into our area (Tutor Time, etc.)

Before the fulltime daycare ends, you might call around and get a price range of aftercare programs in your area. Then when the CP wants to discuss placement, the NCP will have an idea of their share of the financial burden, AND should have talking points for the merits/disadvantages of each.

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#219956 - 04/23/07 01:48 PM Re: After School Care [Re: NancyD]
Susanf31 Offline
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How is it unfair? Why should all of the daycare fall on BM's shoulders when the kid being in daycare enables your H to work too.

Yes, your H will have to contribute towards after-school care for his child. Most states split the bill in ratio to income.

Just like if you worked...you and your H would pay for your child's daycare, no? Same goes with the child he has with his ex. He and his ex pay for that child's daycare.

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#219957 - 04/23/07 02:02 PM Re: After School Care [Re: 061212]
Avaya Offline
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Loc: Arkansas
Depends on where you live. In my state the CP's income is not used in calculating CS, and I assume that is the rationalle for the CP being responsible for all child care costs. NCP pays for half medical/dental and nothing else, according to state statute.
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#219958 - 04/23/07 05:40 PM Re: After School Care [Re: 061212]
preemiemom Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
[quote]My boyfriend has just had his child support modified. For the next four months it will be 900+ because his child is in daycare. After, four months it will reduce to 500. Now, the ex is looking into after school care, will he be obligated to pay for that care? It is unfair because of the increase we cannot send our own daughter to daycare so we will have to wait. At the moment he is unable to contribute to her current care because of his obligation to his other child. Please help! [/quote]

Yes, he would have to pay for it, presumably. "Afterschool" care is no different than "day"care. You weren't specific but I am assuming that either the child in question is either just hitting school age and is now in a full time daycare program for the summer.. and will be entering kindergarten in the fall?

You don't specify what prompted the change in order. Mother went back to work? Mother just incurred daycare costs (ie: had free daycare, no longer available??). I'm going to assume that the mother is going back to work full-time (you didn't mention if the $500 portion was an increase or a decrease or a non-change in amount).

If he's obligated for "day"care, then he is obligated for "afterschool" care.

Are you currently working? Are you guys working opposite shifts so one provides childcare for your child during the day, the other at night?

You state your boyfriend can't send your child to daycare.. Presumably, you'd need to find a job that, after paying daycare, still brought income into the household, otherwise, the job isn't worthwhile. Or again, you work offshifts.

Be prepared, again not knowing where you are from. If you and boyfriend ever split up.. don't expect his financial contribution to your child to equal that of the first child. Pretty much it's whoever bellies up to the bar first, so to speak. As a comparison for you.. my stbx pays over $7,000 a year in BASIC child support for first child. Not including 1/2 medical and 1/2 childcare (currently $300+ per month, or $3,600 per year). With what he makes, minus what he owes first wife, his CS obligation to OUR child is a grand total of $300 a YEAR... Is it fair? No.. is it the way the system works? Yes...

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#219959 - 04/23/07 07:16 PM Yes [Re: 061212]
Melody Offline
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Loc: California
he should contribute for the after school care....as long as it is required in order for the custodial parent to perform their job, then BOTH parents should be paying for it.

I dont' understand what your child has to do with this? Daycare isn't a treat that your child is losing out on...it's a cost of doing business if both parents are working. Why couldn't you send your kid to daycare; if you work, then you get paid and can pay for daycare. If you don't work, then why would you NEED to send your child to daycare?

Oh...and BTW...the other child was there first, so legally his obligation IS to his other child FIRST.

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#219960 - 04/23/07 07:37 PM Re: Yes [Re: Melody]
061212 Offline
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Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 10
First of all he isn't the first child. He's the second child. Never, did I say he shouldn't pay for it! Secondly, I do work and why is it that I have to pay for all of it. Are you trying to say because I work that I have enough money to pay for it. Another thing you don't know the whole story now why are you so aggressive? Are you a manipulative ex too? Like his ex! Are you also implying that our child and any future children shouldn't be supported because he created a child with someone before me?? Yes, I need daycare for my child because I work too! I think you're answer is so lame and only because you are in the situation where you were somebody elses first. Listen here I'm somebody elses first too but never would I put my ex and my child through what she has put my bf through.

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#219961 - 04/23/07 08:39 PM Re: Yes [Re: 061212]
youngatheart Offline
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Ummm...what exactly do you think needs to happen. Point is, he made a child who needs to be taken care of. Part of taking care of that child means daycare, aparently.

As far as him contributing to the support of your child...are you saying that he only makes $900 a month? If so, he needs to find a different job. He chose to make a child with you, as well as the one he already had, so he needs to find a way to provide for that child as well. If this is a problem, he needs to stop having children.

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#219962 - 04/23/07 08:57 PM Re: Yes [Re: youngatheart]
Witch23 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 381
After school care is a state by state issue. In TX, NCP's are not responsible for "daycare", it is calculated in CS I guess.

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#219963 - 04/23/07 09:00 PM Re: Yes [Re: Witch23]
youngatheart Offline
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Yes, I know that. But that obviously isn't the case in the OPs situation, as they are paying for daycare this summer.

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#219964 - 04/23/07 09:17 PM Re: Yes [Re: 061212]
almostheaven Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
You don't have to pay for all of it. You pay for part and dad is supposed to pay for part. Just like with his other child. Mom pays part and dad is supposed to pay part...based on their incomes since they're in a separation/divorce situation.
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#219965 - 04/23/07 09:56 PM Re: Yes [Re: 061212]
Dee78 Offline
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Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
I think you need to take a step back.

Personal opinions don't matter here, state law is what matters. Each state is different but based on your post I will assume that your bf is responsible for paying for part of daycare. Afterschool care IS daycare because the child can't be left home alone while the mother works.

My question to you is how is THAT being manipulative? She has to work and the child has to be in afterschool care. These are facts that can't be manipulated. Maybe other issues have lead you to believe that she is manipulative but you haven't shared YOUR whole story so therefore WE can't know the whole story.

Maybe you wouldn't make your ex responsible for his child but that doesn't mean that every CP should allow their ex to be irresponsible.

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#219966 - 04/23/07 10:30 PM So you mouth off here [Re: 061212]
Melody Offline
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Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
AND in private message? How silly!

Ok...so the kid is the second. Either way...if the support order exists, then your H must contribute to the daycare for this child who must be from a previous relationship than yours.

Courts expect people to not have more children than they can afford, so your H has a financial duty to his previous children BEFORE subsequent children. Sorry....but that's how it works. Some states do allow a reduction in CS when there are subsequent children, but not all and not a lot.

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#219967 - 04/23/07 11:20 PM Re: Yes [Re: Dee78]
061212 Offline
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Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 10
Okay, here is the current situation all! Bf has 3 total kids. He has been supporting all of them but by the time it comes to our child he barely has enough. He pays for CS, travel expenses, and his bills. Only one mom takes him to court for modifications. One modification took her 6 months to sign because she didn't agree even though that was what CSS calculated, and finally she did. She has taken him to court recently because she wanted sole physical and legal custody. She has even asked him to relinquish his parental rights. Keep in mind he has never been late with CS and visits his child often to remain part of his life. He hired a lawyer because he wanted to have joint physical and legal cutody. She was served the response and called us at 5:45 in the morning that they had to come to a compromise because she couldn't afford to go to court. Keep in mind she filed the papers first.

She has even tried to negotiate the child support but my bf said it wasn't about the support in the first place but instead about spending more time with their kid. That is where the lawyers came in to the picture and layed out these next four months but nothing else. She has in the past visits planned events during his parenting time. Has even had people writing false statements about him to discredit him as a father.

Now, I am not saying anything about paying the daycare I just wanted to know if anyone knew about paying for after care.

As a mother I just want all of the children to be supported equally. Believe me there is more to tell but I can't write it all it would be too long.

As mothers would you prevent the father of your child from having a strong relationship with them? Would you tell your own child that your father is a visitor because that really is what he is? Would you object to the father calling his daycare to find out what the activities are for that week? Would you not put him as an emergency contact for the fear of abduction but place your new boyfriend on the list instead? Would you object to having your child's father's new family around during visits, even though he has known us since he was a year old? Would you tell the father of your child to relinquish their parental rights because the CS has to be modified because he has been laid off and she isn't happy with that? It is a case of no matter what he did, she wasn't happy. THAT IS MANIPULATIVE.

In my case my ex supports my son in every aspect and in no way is he irresponsible. He visits twice a year but calls every other day. I don't object because I know he is in the military and has a very busy schedule. I can see that they still have a very strong bond.

This is most of the situtation!

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#219968 - 04/23/07 11:27 PM Re: Yes [Re: 061212]
Dee78 Offline
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Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
See now there is more to the situation, what you have to understand is that we were going SOLELY on what you presented to us and you were hateful with your response, namecalling, etc. I can understand being frustrated with the entire situation, my DH was laid off last year and it was a stressful time and I can only imagine how much more stress would be added to it.

But the facts are this, you created a child with a man that already had 2 children. You may not like to hear it but he has a responsbility to those children BEFORE yours simply because there is a court ordering him to be responsible.

If you want your child to be taken into consideration then you have to file for the modification. If your state laws allow for a modification based on subsequent children. However, you should be careful because filing for a modification and sometimes backfire. If his income has increased, if her income has increased, if she has had more children, and a number of other factors could mean an upward modification.

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#219969 - 04/23/07 11:29 PM Re: Yes [Re: 061212]
youngatheart Offline
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Registered: 09/04/05
Posts: 9498
Aftercare IS daycare. And, if your state statutes allow for daycare to be added to a child support order, then he will have to pay his portion of the aftercare (daycare).

Regarding the rest, sounds like there's a lot going on. It's hard to make judgements based upon one side. Nor am I inclined to make a judgement anyway.

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#219970 - 04/23/07 11:31 PM Re: Yes [Re: Dee78]
Susanf31 Offline
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Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 10630
Afterschool childcare *IS* DAYCARE. What part about that don't you understand. You keep speaking as if Afterschool care is somehow different than daycare. It's DAYCARE that happens AFTER school.

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#219971 - 04/23/07 11:46 PM Re: Yes [Re: Susanf31]
061212 Offline
recently joined

Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 10
Dee78 is right on! She really sounds like she knows what she is talking about.

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#219972 - 04/24/07 12:31 AM Day care and AFTer care [Re: 061212]
Melody Offline
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Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 10102
Loc: California
are the same thing! As long as the children are being cared for by some individual or corporation while the parents work, there is a cost associated that should be shared by both parents. The name for it is not relevant. Daycare implies a full day before the children are school aged. After care implies a program that runs outside of the school hours because many parents don't get off work by 3pm (or dismissal time)

When you have three children already, it usually isn't the best financial decision to have more unless you have a great financial situation. I'm sorry your child seems to get the least, but the other three were born first and he has a duty to them BEFORE any other children.

As for wanting the children to be supported equally...well I want to win the lottery, but I probably won't. It just doesn't work that way. The three children that were born of their marriage get first crack at his income. You and your child get what remains after the support guidelines have been calculated. Some states do allow for a minor reduction when a child is born in a later marriage. But honestly, it is his ex's fault that you and he decided to have more children? Why should HER children have less because YOU two decided to get pregnant? I'm not saying it to be mean...just looking at it from an unbiased perspective.

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#219973 - 04/24/07 01:39 AM Re: Yes [Re: 061212]
TGSM Offline
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Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 5856
What state are you in? That will really help with the answers. In CA afterschool care is now FREE for children in public schools...thank God too, it saves me about $1500 a year!
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#219974 - 04/24/07 01:42 AM Statewide, TGSM? [Re: TGSM]
Melody Offline
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Registered: 06/03/04
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Loc: California
I've never heard of that!

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#219975 - 04/24/07 01:48 AM Re: Yes [Re: TGSM]
Dee78 Offline
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Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
Wow, I wish it were free here. I pay $70 a week for the girls' care.

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#219976 - 04/24/07 02:11 AM Re: Yes [Re: 061212]
Cassie23 Offline
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Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 14784
Melody's answer is the way it is and in some cases that is unfortunate. Just like PM stated above the courts consider FIRST CS orders first. He will have to pay daycare if he leaves in a state that allows it, from what it sounds like he does.

CS will most likely NOT be modifed just because he has other children to support- that's just the way it goes. I don't agree with it, it's just the way it is...

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#219977 - 04/24/07 02:13 AM Re: Yes [Re: Cassie23]
jsp Offline
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Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 4197
$70 a week is a bargin here.

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#219978 - 04/24/07 03:09 AM Re: Yes [Re: Dee78]
preemiemom Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
[quote]Wow, I wish it were free here. I pay $70 a week for the girls' care. [/quote]

I'd give my left arm for it to cost that. I pay $250 a week for my daughter, and that's on the low end. The daycare nearest where I work is a whopping $360 a week/$1,564 a month.

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#219979 - 04/24/07 03:18 AM Re: Yes [Re: Cassie23]
preemiemom Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 19391
[quote]Melody's answer is the way it is and in some cases that is unfortunate. Just like PM stated above the courts consider FIRST CS orders first. He will have to pay daycare if he leaves in a state that allows it, from what it sounds like he does.

CS will most likely NOT be modifed just because he has other children to support- that's just the way it goes. I don't agree with it, it's just the way it is... [/quote]

Again, depending on where you live. Here in NY, the only consideration is a NEGATIVE towards subsequent children, since the amount of basic child support for each child (and alimony if applicable) is deducted from the non custodial parent's GROSS income (also minus an allowance for FICA). So, the more children receiving child support, the less children down the line get in child support.

Here in NY, there is the "Self Support Reserve", which is the category my stbx fits in. Although his POSSIBLE income is close to $40K, his ACTUAL 2006 income was only about $20K. Deduct out FICA, deduct out child support paid to first child... and he is left below the self-support reserve (which is about $13,500). The law won't allow (again here) the non-custodial parent to fall below the poverty level. That's why my daughter is only entitled to $300 a year, versus the $7,392 a year the first child gets.

The "system" further sucks in that: While my daughter's child support is FORCED to be calculated based on the actual 2006 income (I can't use what he "might" make this year based on his "current salary"), conversely, stbx can NOT go to court on his FIRST order and ask for a reduction based on his actual 2006 income.

Why?????? Because 9 out of 10 lawyers here will tell you it is a waste of time. Most judges will say "well, while you're paying more than you should NOW.. someday your income may increase ABOVE what your cs is calculated at, and just as YOU'RE not going to get a reduction NOW, your ex won't get an INCREASE later, just b/c your income increases".

Now, folks from other parts of New York State (like Cassie I think, and someone else) could show examples where that's not true, as it appears the courts in different parts of the state apply the law differently; however, here on Long Island I've never seen it work any other way.

NOW, once my stbx's cs is set at that level... I am putting in language in our agreement that states he has to show yearly tax returns and all backup wage statements (1099's and W-2's) and his calculation he would AGREE to adjust OUT of the self-support reserve rate, when/if, his income warrants it. However, now that he KNOWS that, it would be just as easy for him to hide his income (ie: work for cash, hide under a business identity) therefore NEVER causing his income to "increase".

So, I have 100% financial responsibility for our daughter. But that said? I never would have gotten pregnant with her, and this is my main point, had I not felt that I would be ABLE to provide for her 100% if need be. "Need be" just came about much sooner (or really I never hoped for it) than one would have expected.

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#219980 - 04/24/07 04:19 AM Re: Statewide, TGSM? [Re: Melody]
TGSM Offline
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Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 5856
It's actually based upon prop 49...here is a link to a site that explains it.

http://www.childrennow.org/assets/pdf/issues_education_afterschool_prop49_factsheet.pdf
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Faith-a f*rm belief in something for which there is no proof...complete trust.~Merriam Webster

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#219981 - 04/24/07 10:22 AM Re: Yes [Re: preemiemom]
Dee78 Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 11820
Loc: TN
No, that's for AFTERschool care. I pay $132 a week for E's fulltime care. Fullday care for the girls in the summer will be bumped to $140 a week.

I thought you lived in a low cost of living area, I'm surprised that your childcare is that expensive.

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#219982 - 04/24/07 08:19 PM Re: Yes [Re: preemiemom]
jeffnjaclyn Offline
addict

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 443
i pick my daughter up, but if she needed it then the before school program (starting at 7:00) and the after school program (until 5:00) only cost $1 each. So i would have it lucky, only $10 a week.

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