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#228862 - 05/13/07 10:22 PM I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young.
realitybias Offline
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Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 19
I'm young.. I sometimes think I'm smarter than I really am. I'm a very successful guy, I've done a lot in college so far, and I thought I had met the girl of my dreams. I have been married to her for just under a year, and we've been seeing each other for two. We only live in an apartment, and we barely have any money.

At first, the marriage was amazing. I could not stand being away from her. As time goes on, though, some of her darker side is coming out. She's always arguing, always yelling at me... she gets irritated very easily, and I try to give her space. My biggest problem is that she just doesn't help out, at all. Most of the time, she's just sitting in front of the computer not doing anything.

I provide ALL of the money for the family, I give her so much attention, and I've loved her and stayed faithful from the day I met her. Every time she gets mad at me for doing something wrong, or not doing something, I just feel insulted. She hates it when I tell her that it'd be good if she'd get a job, she hates it when I ask her to help around the house, etc.

And recently, I found out she's also got some serious psychological problems. She cuts herself (I've only caught her once, she said she stopped). I told her to go to a psychologist, which she did, who said nothing was wrong with her (I was floored that they didn't take cutting seriously). She's punched me before after I threatened divorce... that ended in a tearful end to the argument where we both appologised...

But things never change. I was too young when I married her, I still am too young. I keep thinking I made the biggest mistake in my life. The good times between us are great, I love her so much... but the bad times just hurt too much for me to keep going, and she doesn't help out. I don't know what to do...

Divorce would be an easy way out... Our income is about 10,000 dollars a year, and we live in an apartment. The reason that income is so easy to live off of is because I'm on scholarship. I hate to even suggest it, I don't even know HOW my family will react. They love this woman.. nobody knows the side of her that I do. I love this woman too... but I'm wondering if I can keep doing this any longer. I can't stand going UP and DOWN and UP and DOWN every day.



Edited by realitybias (05/13/07 10:29 PM)

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#228863 - 05/13/07 10:28 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
txks1151 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 210
HOLY CRAP!

This sounds exactly like my ex wife.. About 3 years ago..

Sorry to say, but if she does not want to get help for her mental issues, she wont. Did the doc say there is nothign wrong with her, or did she tell you that. And what was the doc told?

If she does not do anything now, what do you think it will be like when you guys have kids? It's probably NOT going to get better..

Depending on the state, if she gets herself declared disabled, you are in for a soaking.. And her never working looks bad too..

My advice, give us some more specifics, but going on what I read here.. Get out now. The longer you wait the more painful it becomes.

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#228864 - 05/13/07 10:34 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: txks1151]
realitybias Offline
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Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 19
More specifics, sure. I'm so glad that someone out there can empathize with my plight. I'm only 18. We're both about to turn 19. I'm in college, she will be going to college to study nursing. She wants to help while I'm going through medical school, although I've constantly told her that it's not necessary, as I may decide not to even go to medical school and instead focus on my current degree in graduate school.

I have managed to keep a small job through college, and am living mostly on the income of that job, my family's gratuities, and my scholarship (the school pays me to go to this school). She's pretty much done nothing but sit around the house, she never cleans her own messes, and only does anything around the house when I get onto her case (with much yelling from the both of us).

She's hurt the cats before, nearly choked one of them to death (Shook em up heavily), and goes through constant up and down mood shifts. She refused to go for any more help, saying that the local mental health unit told her that it wasn't necessary. I honestly don't even have proof that she went, but I trust her. It isnt that she's not trustworthy, we both are pretty trustworthy to each other... its that she seems to think that I'm just going to sit here and take every verbal assault, every name calling episode, and just continue to work my arse off to get her through, with no help from her.

I love this woman, but really, there is only so much I can take...

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#228865 - 05/13/07 10:58 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
matilda Offline
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Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 2143


She's hurt the cats before, nearly choked one of them to death (Shook em up heavily), and goes through constant up and down mood shifts. She refused to go for any more help, saying that the local mental health unit told her that it wasn't necessary. I honestly don't even have proof that she went, but I trust her. It isnt that she's not trustworthy, we both are pretty trustworthy to each other... its that she seems to think that I'm just going to sit here and take every verbal assault, every name calling episode, and just continue to work my arse off to get her through, with no help from her.

I love this woman, but really, there is only so much I can take... [/quote]

Don't you worry about her reactions if you ever have children with her? It is not uncommon for child abusers to also abuse animals. I hope you are using condoms. Have you thought about a trial separation so that you have time to get your head cleared? It might help motivate her to get some counseling for her issues.

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#228866 - 05/13/07 11:02 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
HatesFeminazis Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 47
Cut your losses and get rid of the wench.

Seriously... Just think if she decides to get pregnant on ya!

Once you are rid of this leech, join any Fathers/Male rights group that you believe in and fight these "give me" "feminists" with all that you have.

It will only get worse if you don't stand up and join the fight, now (no pun intended)

Hate those butch cut, man haters!


Edited by HatesFeminazis (05/13/07 11:02 PM)
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First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win-so read me.

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#228867 - 05/13/07 11:02 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: matilda]
realitybias Offline
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Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 19
Neither of us want kids. She's on birth control, and I'm quite honestly scared to have children with her. There are times when I would think she'd be a great mom, and then there are times where I think she would possibly even hurt them. She's gotten extremely pissed off at me for even suggesting this, though, because I have talked to her about it. She then says, "Why are you holding the past against me? I wouldn't treat the kids like that. Kids are not cats"

Then she'd likely go on to call me a retard, jerk, or less mentionable things that I shouldn't be posting on this forum. I'd probably just bear it for a while, but she'd keep going on and on, and I'd try to explain myself... clear things up a little... and then she'd get mad at me, tell me to shut up, ask me why I'm continuing the argument. I'd finally just break down and stoop to her level, engage in a little name calling back (I've gotten a LOT better at avoiding this altogether, though, and haven't done that in a long time).

That's how an argument usually goes between us...

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#228868 - 05/13/07 11:04 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
realitybias Offline
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Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 19
HF, I am actually not against feminism, but the concept of double standards is a cause that I can rally against beside you. It's so funny that you mention this, because she can call me the male version of the b word all she wants (not sure what the rules are on this forum for posting profanity), and insult me all she wants, but as soon as I sling an insult back, she tells me that I can't do that, and then cries, and gets angry at me.

She has said, flat out, that she believes its fine for her to call me names, but when I call her a b after a long argument (and by the way, it isnt often that I stoop to that level, but arguing for a certain amount of time does that to your brain), it's not fine.

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#228869 - 05/13/07 11:06 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young. [Re: realitybias]
almostheaven Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
Sounds to me like she DOES have some mental problem and perhaps you should first concentrate on getting her to a REAL psychologist. Because the one she saw (and do you know for a fact she did see one?) wasn't worth .02. Once her problem can be diagnosed, you may no longer see these "episodes" she seems to be having.
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#228870 - 05/13/07 11:07 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
realitybias Offline
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Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 19
I would also like to say that I've never hurt her. I've held her down when I believed she'd be a danger to herself (when she gets so angry that she thrashes around and starts rolling around the bed like a seizure), and I've held her close whenever she was crying and in an angry fit to try to comfort her, only to get repeatedly kicked. Hell, she'll even kick me in bed if I even so much as slightly touch her after we have an argument.

She's flat out punched me before, as I mentioned earlier, after I threatened divorce. It hurt my ego more than it did physically, and during the argument, she kept calling me a baby... but after it was all through, she told me that she was so sorry, and that she's not normally lik ethat, and that she didnt mean to hit me.

And then, like magic, she's got me back, feeling happy again, not wanting to really let go of her.

She's even told me before she's felt like killing herself, told me that she nearly crashed the car into a tree on purpose, and every time I threaten to divorce, she goes into this state where I literally think she will...

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#228871 - 05/13/07 11:08 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
almostheaven Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
Try and get her to go to therapy WITH you, so you know she went, so you know she's serious about working on it. If she won't do that, follow txks1151's advice before you're in the marriage too long that more damage is done.
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#228872 - 05/13/07 11:09 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: almostheaven]
realitybias Offline
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Posts: 19
Almost, we don't have money. Heck, we don't even have health insurance... and she's perfectly content thinking she's got no problem.

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#228873 - 05/13/07 11:10 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
almostheaven Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
SHE'S on BC, but are YOU? Don't trust someone, whom you yourself says has some issues, to be honest with you about the BC...any moreso than she was honest about the psychologist that I seriously doubt she saw. Make sure YOU'RE covered in this area until you DO make a decision to get out or until she has gotten help.
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Char Fox

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#228874 - 05/13/07 11:12 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
almostheaven Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
When she hits you, threatens to kill herself, etc., call 911. If she's threatening suicide, they'll take her to the emergency room and FORCE her to therapy. That may be the only way to get her help. Then if she is put on medication, you'll need to make sure she takes it. Getting them help is one thing, making them keep up with that help is an ongoing process.
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Char Fox

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#228875 - 05/13/07 11:14 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
almostheaven Offline
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
There are free/income-based clinics in every state. Contact your local Dept. of Health and Human Resources and they can direct you where to find these. As I mention below, if you call 911 during these incidents, they will force her into therapy. And you can fill out financial forms at the hospital to base what you would owe on your income or receive the services free.
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Char Fox

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#228876 - 05/13/07 11:14 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: almostheaven]
realitybias Offline
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Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 19
Already, sex is getting fewer and far between. There are so many things that have to be right for her to be in the mood, though it wasn't always this way. I watch her take the BC pills, though, and I'm not too worried about that aspects. She doesn't want any kids either, I'm sure of this, because despite all of her insecurities, she's a very smart woman. That's why I married her. She doesn't want to ruin her life, but there are certain issues that are just too tough for her to deal with, and she pushes back so hard, that she ends up hurting me as well. She goes from being sedentary, quiet, without working at all or doing anything... to standing up, working for a few minutes, and finding something to scream about, get angry about... and then goes back to sitting at her computer, ignoring me...

hell, that's exactly where she's at right now. We just had an argument about an hour ago... it's what prompted my posting of this.

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#228877 - 05/13/07 11:17 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: almostheaven]
realitybias Offline
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Thats the problem.. she went to one of those free clinics. She never even TALKED to the psychiatrist. Instead, she was put in contact with a certified therapist who screens all of the incoming cases and allows certain ones to go through to the psychiatrist. She told me that the psychiatrist was booked for 6 weeks, so they are only taking really serious cases.

She told me these things when we weren't arguing, and from experience, she's usually very trustworthy when we're not arguing. She told me all that she told him (That she cut herself, that she is depressed a lot, that she gets angry a lot), and she said that the counselor told her that life sucked, and that she should instead see a psychologist on my college campus. I'm trying to get her to go to one of those, but she just seems to have no interest, equating what the counselor said as meaning, "It's really not serious"

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#228878 - 05/13/07 11:28 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
realitybias Offline
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Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 19
So.. I understand that I've used this forum to vent, and I thank all of you for coming to talk to me. There are things that keep me with her, and there are things that push me away...

The case to stay with her...
She really is a nice lady, most of the time.
She makes me feel loved.
I was her first (everything).
She depends on me.
She is awesome, when not going through her rougher phases.
I take marriage seriously.
I've worked so hard to make this marriage work.

But then...
She doesnt respect me.
She doesnt work.
She has extreme anger problems.
She has threatened suicide.
She has cut herself.
My family LOVES her (and it would be so hard to explain, because I'm the person they all expect to succeed in everything in life).
She depends on me (Funny how this is both a reason to stay and a reason to let go).
The fights are just getting tougher and tougher to go through..

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#228879 - 05/13/07 11:33 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
matilda Offline
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Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 2143
She may not wants kids now, but that could change if she thinks she is losing you. More than one child has been born as a way to keep a failing marriage intact. "Accidents" happen as well. She is still young, so she probably likes her freedom. In a few years she could decide it is time to start a family. If she doesn't get help before then it could become more complicated to leave. Co-parenting with someone who is irrational is not fun!!

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#228880 - 05/13/07 11:36 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: matilda]
realitybias Offline
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Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 19
I hoping that everything will be over in a year from now, either through her own successful attempt at fixing the problems that are rendering this marriage tougher and tougher to live with, or by truly just leaving this marriage. I will make sure, though, that no children are made in the process, to the best of my abilities. I may have made her sound like too much of a bad person, she's a very sweet girl, and usually extremely nice.

It's just when she goes into these crazy spats, that she becomes literally, a wholey different person.... Hah, I wish I could just stay married to one of them instead of being with both!

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#228881 - 05/13/07 11:45 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
matilda Offline
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Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 2143
The case to stay with her...
She really is a nice lady, most of the time. I'm sure Saddam, Hitler, etc all were nice at sometimes. Child abusers are nice at times too. She needs help and she doesn't sound very motivated to get it.

She makes me feel loved. Sorry, but a puppy can make you feel loved too. A normal healthy relationship can make you feel loved as well without the worries of getting hurt. Do you have a need to try to help and fix her? Some people stay in dysfunctional relationships because they have a need to "fix" the other person.

I was her first (everything). This is not a reason to put up with being mistreated. It may be that others realized that she had emotional issues and decided to stay clear. Would you feel guilty if you left because of this? Do you feel some obligation to care for her because of this?

She depends on me. A healthy relationship has both people contributing to the relationship. Do you have some need to have others depend on you to feel good about yourself?

She is awesome, when not going through her rougher phases. Your rougher phases sound like they could become very serious. Are you worried about her physically hurting you or herself?

I take marriage seriously.
I've worked so hard to make this marriage work. It takes two people to make a marriage work. If she won't work to make herself emotionally healthy, she isn't taking your marriage seriously. A marriage won't work unless both people put forth the effort.

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#228882 - 05/13/07 11:50 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: matilda]
realitybias Offline
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Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 19
The part that struck me the most about your comment, matilda, i sthat she really does have me SCARED to leave her. I'm afraid not only of what she'd do to me, but what she'd do to herself. She's a bad driver, and heck, last time she drove away after we got into an argument, she came back with a ticket (She was driving without her license, and got a citation for no seatbelt).

I feel trapped... by my family, by her, by my love for her, by my hopes that this situation will just FIX itself.

What do I do?

How DO I start divorce? I don't even know where to start...

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#228883 - 05/13/07 11:50 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
matilda Offline
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Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 2143
Have you sat down and had a heart to heart with your family about this? I think you need an outside perspective from family or good friends. I had a friend that was in an abusive relationship and she made excuse after excuse for her boyfriend. She ultimately blamed herself for his mean spirit and abuse. It took her quite awhile to realize that she wasn't going to fix him. No matter what she did or how much she loved him, it wouldn't change him. He refused to recognize his behavior as abusive, thus didn't seek help. Was she abused as a child? A family history of mental illness?

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#228884 - 05/13/07 11:53 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
matilda Offline
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Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 2143
I would recommend considering a separation to gain clarity. Once you don't have the stress of taking care of her you might realize that it is an unhealthy relationship. Does she have family that she can live with?

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#228885 - 05/13/07 11:58 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: matilda]
realitybias Offline
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Registered: 05/13/07
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Yes, she has a history of abuse... but not against her. It was against her mother... Some of the things she does, is exactly what I would have imagined her father doing (Her father died while we just started going out). She misses him, and says that is the reason for all of her depression. She did change dramatically after he died...

She has family, yes, and after she graduates, I may even suggest it. She's not going to want to, though, and she's going to get into an argument about it, close herself in, and make me feel like a jerk for even suggesting it...

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#228886 - 05/14/07 12:01 AM Have you opened up to your family?? [Re: realitybias]
matilda Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 2143
Have you been pretending that everything is okay?? Have you been covering and making excuses for your wife so that your family doesn't worry? Could your family already be suspcious and just trying to be supportive of you out of love? I again think you should open up to your family for support. They know you best and can offer advice. You might also have a friend that you truly respect that can give you some perspective. You are young, so others have more life experiences to share. The choices you make now can affect your life in the long term. You may not think it's a big deal now, but that could change in 10 years. My best advice to you is to seek counsel from those you respect-be open and honest if you want helpful answers. Also don't complicate matters by bringing an innocent child into the world.

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#228887 - 05/14/07 12:04 AM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
matilda Offline
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Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 2143
Quote:
Yes, she has a history of abuse... but not against her. It was against her mother... Some of the things she does, is exactly what I would have imagined her father doing (Her father died while we just started going out). She misses him, and says that is the reason for all of her depression. She did change dramatically after he died...

She has family, yes, and after she graduates, I may even suggest it. She's not going to want to, though, and she's going to get into an argument about it, close herself in, and make me feel like a jerk for even suggesting it...


It is likely that she has a dysfunctional view about what marriage is supposed to be like. You need to get over the idea that she may think you are a jerk. You need to do what is best for YOU! If you had a son in the same situation, what would you tell him??

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#228888 - 05/14/07 12:05 AM Re: Have you opened up to your family?? [Re: matilda]
realitybias Offline
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Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 19
Maybe I should go to a counselor myself... get some real, professional advice, discover how I should handle the situation. I know that the problem is not with me, but she refuses to get any more help. I won't make the mistake of ruining some poor, innocent kid's life, though.

Thank you so much, everyone, you've really made this whole thing a whole lot easier to bear.

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#228889 - 05/14/07 12:07 AM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young. [Re: realitybias]
Rebecca5 Offline
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Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
Your school should offer free counseling services....find them and make an appointment...if not for the both of you, then at least for you. Also, if any of her family/friends would provide some helpful influence, ask them for help. This is more than you can handle by yourself.

She has some serious mental health issues that cannot be ignored.

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#228890 - 05/14/07 12:07 AM Re: Have you opened up to your family?? [Re: realitybias]
matilda Offline
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Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 2143
I think a session with a counselor would be a great idea. Often times colleges have counselors available for a reduced cost. You could also look into attending some group meetings.

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#228891 - 05/14/07 12:07 AM Re: Have you opened up to your family?? [Re: realitybias]
realitybias Offline
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Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 19
I know what you are saying, Matilda... I will tell her that once graduation comes, I want her to go live on her own for a little while, and just give me a week of space. I think I would do SO well on my own, for at least a little while... I feel like an ass for even saying this, but when I AM alone, when she's off doing school functions or something, I feel happier. But... I have stayed true to my responsibility towards her, and I still do love her.

But, you have made this decision easier to make.

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#228892 - 05/14/07 12:07 AM Re: Have you opened up to your family?? [Re: realitybias]
realitybias Offline
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Posts: 19
Yeah, the college provides free counseling services. I'm going to take them up on this, really soon.

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#228893 - 05/14/07 12:12 AM Re: Have you opened up to your family?? [Re: realitybias]
matilda Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 2143
I think deep in your heart you know the answers. You just don't want to hurt her or have others think badly about you. Part of growing up is realizing that you can't control and fix others. Sometimes leaving is the best thing you can do. You may be a crutch for her so she doesn't have to face reality. Sometimes having a loved one leave can be a catalyst for positive change. Are you risking your own mental health of safety by staying with her? Could this dysfunctional relationship hinder you from forming healthy relationships in the future?

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#228894 - 05/14/07 12:28 AM Re: Have you opened up to your family?? [Re: matilda]
realitybias Offline
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Posts: 19
I don't want to hurt her, I don't want people to think badly of her OR me. But you are right, I can't fix her, but I have tried as hard as I can. I think I AM risking my own mental health and safety, but I just wish there were something I could do, let her know that it DOESNT have to be this way! *sighs*

And now, after our argument, another classic example of me never being able to do anything right. She's sitting there, crying...

If I were to not do anything, fearing that she'd snap at me, she'd yell at me for being cruel and cold. If I were to get up, hug her, comfort her, she'd knock my hand away and tell me to go away.

I just walked up to her to wipe away her tears and hug her, and she did exactly that.

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#228895 - 05/14/07 12:48 AM Re: Have you opened up to your family?? [Re: realitybias]
matilda Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 2143
From what you say she needs help, help that you are not trained to give her. She needs to get help from a trained professional. If she doesn't want it, you can't make her. She may not be ready to deal with her inner turmoil. You can't fix this or make her ready sooner. All you can do is keep yourself from becoming someone you don't want to be. I honestly believe that if you stay in this situation, you are going to change. It may be slow and you won't notice at first. Her demons may slowly become your demons as well. It is wonderful that you love her and want to help her. You need to love and protect yourself first. I truly pray that you seek counseling or advice from others and don't let this slide because she temporarily gets better. I think you realize that this is not a good situation for you. Part of maturity is realizing when we are in a situation beyond our control and seeking help when it is needed. Hopefully you see that getting help shows you are growing up and becoming a stronger human being, not as a weakness or as a failure.

Have you opened up to your family about what is really happening???


Edited by matilda (05/14/07 12:52 AM)

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#228896 - 05/14/07 01:28 AM I hate to break it to you... [Re: realitybias]
almostheaven Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
>>>>>she said that the counselor told her that life sucked, and that she should instead see a psychologist on my college campus

But she's not all that trustworthy. NO counselor is going to tell her "life sucked". She lied to you.
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Char Fox

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#228897 - 05/14/07 02:18 AM Re: I hate to break it to you... [Re: almostheaven]
realitybias Offline
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Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 19
Alright, everybody. I just spoke to her, on an honest level, and it went better than I could have hoped for, although there are still unresolved issues. She did go that day, but it wasnt to a counselor. She was seen by a nurse, who wasnt even trained in counseling, and said that she was told the equivalent of "life sucks" and was not allowed to go onto the next level of psychological screening.

She says that she WOULD kill herself if I ever went through with divorcing her, but she came up with ways to avoid getting angry at me next time, and promised things would change. Sure, this has happened before, but the biggest thing she said she'd do...

I'm taking her to a psychologist on Monday, and we're both going to sit down and talk with him about what her best options are. She knows that something is wrong with her, but she is so afraid to talk to someone because she says she felt like she was blown off after pouring out everything to the nurse and getting told the equivalent of "Buzz off." She says it was done because she didn't have insurance, and she could tell because it happened right as soon as she told him that she didn't have insurance.

My college offers free psychological screenings... they are just psychologists, though, not psychiatrists, so that takes medication out of the mix. She thinks its a chemical problem and would prefer medication, but is fine with just opening up and talking to the psychologist. She wants me to come, so I'll come with her.

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#228898 - 05/14/07 02:24 AM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young. [Re: realitybias]
Renee Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 4022
Loc: The Palmetto State
I've read through the posts and since everyone has already stated the biggest option - counseling - I'd like to point out two reasons why you need to initiate a change in your life, whether its joint counseling or divorce.

1. As someone else mentioned, if she took her marriage to you seriously, if she valued it as much as you do, she'd recognize the problems are serious and she would stick with getting counseling. If she's not doing that, and is content to live like this, whats to say that 5 or 10 years down the road she won't bail when her demons get to be too much? How would that be for irony? YOU loved her so much to work thru her issues, you felt guilty about leaving, but suddenly she bails, and you're left wondering about the years lost. Plus, its not unheard of on this site of a mentally ill spouse taking their X to the cleaners in a settlement because they have mental problems that prevent them from being self-sufficient.

I know that seems like a very cold thing to think about at this point, but you are obviously struggling with the decision to leave. You need to consider your future, the emotional and financial, now.

2. What happens if there's an oops and you bring children into your marriage? Do you really want to have your children raised by a mother who cuts herself and who is so emotionally unstable she's up and down all the time?

I really hope she can get some serious mental health help because she sounds bipolar to me. That can be controlled with medication and she *could* live a much more peaceful life if she'd just take the steps towards it.

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#228899 - 05/14/07 02:33 AM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: Renee]
realitybias Offline
recently joined

Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 19
She thinks she is bipolar too. How can she get medication? She WANTS it. I WANT it.

Nobody will give it to us though.

I'm stuck wondering what the hell I'm suposed to do...

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#228900 - 05/14/07 02:42 AM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
realitybias Offline
recently joined

Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 19
I mean, can she just go to a regular, run of the mill doctor, and request it? Or does it not work that way?

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#228901 - 05/14/07 03:15 AM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
Rebecca5 Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
Many general practice doctors will prescribe medications for mental health issues....but I wouldn't recommend it. She needs to be diagnosed.

I realize that you trust her when she's not acting like a fruit loop....but let me assure you....her mental health issues are present all the time, even when she appears normal. I *HIGHLY* doubt she presented her full history and behaviors to a mental health professional and they told her it was no big deal.

Does your college offer health insurance?

I realize that you don't make very much money, but you might want to consider picking up some work for the summer just to get money in the bank. Lots of people work and go to school.

Another option may be public assistance, or turning to your family for financial support.

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#228902 - 05/14/07 03:36 AM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: Rebecca5]
matilda Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 2143
I know if you work (24 hours I believe) at Starbucks Coffee they offer insurance to all employees. I'm not sure if you have any locations in your state. Another place is IN-N-Out Burgers. I would call around and see what other people suggest. If there is a mental health hotline they might know.

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#228903 - 05/14/07 04:09 AM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: Renee]
txks1151 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 210
Okay, now that I have read this epic..

She threatens to kill herself (or makes comments to that point).
My ex did

THIS IS NOT GOING TO END WELL IF YOU DON'T GET OUT.

My ex was the proberbial "You can lead a horse to water but cannot make it drink" with her mental health issues..

Cost me NINE YEARS of my life between the marriage, dating, and living like a hermit paying outrageous alimony.

Why did you get married at 17-18 after dating one year?

Not to sound like an ass. You sound exactly like the 18 year old version of me (28 now). But, you are 18, and blinded by love that someone else either doesn't return, or has a really fvcked up way of showing it.

Cut your losses and get out.

DO NOT GET HER PREGGERS..

If she kills herself, or hurts herself. YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE. SHe is just trying to use gulit to control you..

My ex did the same exact stuff.. And she got worse as she got older... MUCH WORSE.. She had "Daddy Issues" as well.. Those NEVER got better.

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#228904 - 05/14/07 04:21 AM Worse comes to worse... [Re: matilda]
Renee Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 4022
Loc: The Palmetto State
..the two of you go to the ER of your local hospital, you tell them she has issues with cutting and she is a danger to herself and others. If the hospital is convinced that she is a danger to herself they will commit her for observation at the minimum. Hopefully from there she could get add'l care and financial assistance for the resulting bills.

A friend did this with her sister and she finally got the help she needed for the problems her parents were in denial over.

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#228905 - 05/14/07 04:29 AM Re: Worse comes to worse... [Re: Renee]
Rebecca5 Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 11697
Loc: Down home.
If something like that becomes necessary.....don't take her during a weekend, or at least make sure the hospital you take her to has psychiatric care available 24/7. My ex bottomed out on a Friday night....emergency admit to the psychiatric intensive care unit...where he wasn't seen by a physician until Monday morning. By then....he was just angry. I firmly believe that had he been seen Friday night or even Saturday, his life would be different today. By Monday, he didn't want to listen to anyone....didn't want to talk to anyone....and because he wasn't seen as a threat to himself or others, they had to let him go. The sent him home with a prescription for Prozac (not anything close to what he needed), and told him to find a therapist.

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#228906 - 05/14/07 10:17 AM Re: Worse comes to worse... [Re: Rebecca5]
1004SRS Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 5044
Renee and Rebecca5 are right. Take her to an ER if she's a danger to herself or others. She can get the help she needs AND they will normally help her find financial assistance to pay for it. That is what the Social Workers at the hospital where I work spend a lot of time doing.

I work at a hospital with a big psych unit.

She can't diagnose herself, btw. I was struggling with my D. I spent some time just talking to a Social Worker. He was great to talk to. I still talk to a Social Worker when I get overwhelmed. My primary care doc just gave me antidepressents. My pastor at church spent time trying to talk me and the abusive X out of divorcing.

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#228907 - 05/14/07 10:41 AM Yes, you are young... [Re: realitybias]
HatesFeminazis Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 47
Realitybias,

Yes, you are young. Very young and have been brainwashed with feminazi rhetorical propaganda.

You don't really know what feminism is. Thankfully, you have come across me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You need to understand that all of our child support laws and custody laws are inspired by communism and that feminism was born from the Klu Klux Klan (KKK). Were you aware that prior to WWI that children were consistently given placement with the father? This is all very well documented.

FEMINISM IS COMMUNISM.

Don't believe me?

First, I will show you the goals of communism as in regards to the USA:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1561529/posts

The Communist Takeover of America: 45 Declared Goals (Congressional Record, 1963)
"The Naked Communist"/Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35 ^ | January 10, 1963 | Cleon Skousen


Posted on 01/20/2006 6:03:31 AM PST by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard



Communist Goals (1963)

Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35

January 10, 1963


Current Communist Goals


EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA


IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES


Thursday, January 10, 1963





Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.


At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:


[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]


CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS


1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.


2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.


3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.


4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.


5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.


6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.


7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.


8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.


9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.


10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.


11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)


12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.


13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.


14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.


15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.


16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.


17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.


18. Gain control of all student newspapers.


19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.


20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.


21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.


22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."


23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."


24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.


25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.


26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."


27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."


28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."


29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.


30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."


31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.


32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.


33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.


34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.


35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.


36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.


37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.


38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].


39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.


40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.


41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.


42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.


43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.


44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.


45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

If you do not know what some of the stuff is about above, just do a Google and get up to par.

Now (no pun intended), here are some myths exploded and as you can see from the above, are exactly part of the goals stated above:

TAKE BACK THE CAMPUS

Are you tired of male-bashing and victimology?
Have you had your fill of feminist "Ms./Information"?
Have you been mislead by factually challenged professors?
TAKE THIS TEST:

Campus feminism is a kind of cult: as early as freshman orientation, professors begin spinning theories about how American women are oppressed under "patriarchy." Here is a list of the most common feminist myths. If you believe two or more of these untruths, you may need deprogramming.


The Ten Most Common Feminist Myths:


1. Myth: One in four women in college has been the victim of rape or attempted rape.

Fact: This mother of all factoids is based on a fallacious feminist study commissioned by Ms. magazine. The researcher, Mary Koss, hand-picked by hard-line feminist Gloria Steinem, acknowledges that 73 percent of the young women she counted as rape victims were not aware they had been raped. Forty-three percent of them were dating their "attacker" again.

Rape is a uniquely horrible crime. That is why we need sober and responsible research. Women will not be helped by hyperbole and hysteria. Truth is no enemy of compassion, and falsehood is no friend.

(Nara Schoenberg and Sam Roe, "The Making of an Epidemic," Toledo Blade, October 10, 1993; and Neil Gilbert, "Examining the Facts: Advocacy Research Overstates the Incidence of Data and Acquaintance Rape," Current Controversies in Family Violence eds. Richard Gelles and Donileen Loseke, Newbury Park, CA.: Sage Publications, 1993, pp.120-132; and Campus Crime and Security, Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Education, 1997. *According to this study, campus police reported 1,310 forcible sex offenses on U.S. campuses in one year. That works out to an average of fewer than one rape per campus.)

2. Myth: Women earn 75 cents for every dollar a man earns.

Fact: The 75 cent figure is terribly misleading. This statistic is a snapshot of all current full-time workers. It does not consider relevant factors like length of time in the workplace, education, occupation, and number of hours worked per week. (The experience gap is particularly large between older men and women in the workplace.) When economists do the proper controls, the so-called gender wage gap narrows to the point of vanishing.

(Essential reading: Women's Figures: An Illustrated Guide to the Economic Progress of Women in America, by Diana Furchtgott-Roth and Christine Stolba, published by the Independent Women's Forum and the American Enterprise Institute, Washington, D.C. 2000.)

3. Myth: 30 percent of emergency room visits by women each year are the result of injuries from domestic violence.

Fact: This incendiary statistic is promoted by gender feminists whose primary goal seems to be to impugn men. Two responsible government studies report that the nationwide figure is closer to one percent. While these studies may have missed some cases of domestic violence, the 30% figure is a wild exaggeration.

(National Center for Health Statistics, National Hospital Ambulatory Medical Care Survey: 1992 Emergency Department Summary , Hyattsville, Maryland, March 1997; and U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, Violence-Related Injuries Treated in Hospital Emergency Departments: Washington, D.C., August 1997.)


4. Myth: The phrase "rule of thumb" originated in a man's right to beat his wife provided the stick was no wider than his thumb.

Fact: This is an urban legend that is still taken seriously by activist law professors and harassment workshoppers. The Oxford English Dictionary has more than twenty citations for phrase "rule of thumb" (the earliest from 1692), but not a single mention of beatings, sticks, or husbands and wives.

(For a definitive debunking of the hoax see Henry Ansgar Kelly, "Rule of Thumb and the Folklaw of the Husband's Stick," The Journal of Legal Education, September 1994.)

5. Myth: Women have been shortchanged in medical research.

Fact: The National Institutes of Health and drug companies routinely include women in clinical trials that test for effectiveness of medications. By 1979, over 90% of all NIH-funded trials included women. Beginning in 1985, when the NIH's National Cancer Center began keeping track of specific cancer funding, it has annually spent more money on breast cancer than any other type of cancer. Currently, women represent over 60% of all subjects in NIH-funded clinical trails.

(Essential reading: Cathy Young and Sally Satel, "The Myth of Gender Bias in Medicine," Washington, D.C.: The Women's Freedom Network, 1997.)

6.Myth: Girls have been shortchanged in our gender-biased schools

Fact: No fair-minded person can review the education data and conclude that girls are the have-nots in our schools. Boys are slightly ahead of girls in math and science; girls are dramatically ahead in reading and writing. (The writing skills of 17-year-old boys are at the same level as 14-year- old girls.) Girls get better grades, they have higher aspirations, and they are more likely to go to college.

(See: Trends in Educational Equity of Girls & Women, Washington, D. C.: U.S. Department of Education, June 2000.)

7. Myth: "Our schools are training grounds for sexual harassment... boys are rarely punished, while girls are taught that it is their role to tolerate this humiliating conduct."

(National Organization of Women, "Issue Report: Sexual Harassment," April 1998.)

Fact: "Hostile Hallways," is the best-known study of harassment in grades 8-11. It was commissioned by the American Association of University Women (AAUW) in 1993, and is a favorite of many harassment experts. But this survey revealed that girls are doing almost as much harassing as the boys. According to the study, "85 percent of girls and 76 percent of boys surveyed say they have experienced unwanted and unwelcome sexual behavior that interferes with their lives."

(Four scholars at the University of Michigan did a careful follow-up study of the AAUW data and concluded: "The majority of both genders (53%) described themselves as having been both victim and perpetrator of harassment -- that is most students had been harassed and had harassed others." And these researchers draw the right conclusion: "Our results led us to question the simple perpetrator-victim model...")(See: American Education Research Journal, Summer 1996.)

8. Myth: Girls suffer a dramatic loss of self-esteem during adolescence.

Fact: This myth of the incredible shrinking girls was started by Carol Gilligan, professor of gender studies at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. Gilligan has always enjoyed higher standing among feminist activists and journalists than among academic research psychologists. Scholars who follow the protocols of social science do not accept the reality of an adolescent "crisis" of confidence and "loss of voice." In 1993, American Psychologist reported the new consensus among researchers in adolescent development: "It is now known that the majority of adolescents of both genders successfully negotiate this developmental period without any major psychological or emotional disorder [and] develop a positive sense of personal identity."

(Anne C. Petersen et al. "Depression in Adolescence," American Psychologist February 1993; see also, Daniel Offer, and Kimberly Schonert-Reichl, "Debunking the Myths of Adolescence: Findings from Recent Research," Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, November 1992.)

9. Myth: Gender is a social construction.

Fact: While environment and socialization do play a significant role in human life, a growing body of research in neuroscience, endocrinology, and psychology over the past 40 years suggests there is a biological basis for many sex differences in aptitudes and preferences. In general, males have better spatial reasoning skills; females better verbal skills. Males are greater risk takers; females are more nurturing.

Of course, this does not mean that women should be prevented from pursuing their goals in any field they choose; what it does suggest is that we should not expect parity in all fields. More women than men will continue to want to stay at home with small children and pursue careers in fields like early childhood education or psychology; men will continue to be over-represented in fields like helicopter mechanics and hydraulic engineering.

Warning: Most gender scholars in our universities have degrees in fields like English or comparative literature--not biology or neuroscience. These self-appointed experts on sexuality are scientifically illiterate. They substitute dogma and propaganda for reasoned scholarship.

(For a review of recent findings on sex differences see a special issue of The Scientific American "Men: The Scientific Truth," Fall 2000.)


10. Myth: Women's Studies Departments empowered women and gave them a voice in the academy.

Fact: Women's Studies empowered a small group of like-minded careerists. They have created an old-girl network that is far more elitist, narrow and closed than any of the old-boy networks they rail against. Vast numbers of moderate or dissident women scholars have been marginalized, excluded and silenced.

(Essential reading: everything by Camille Paglia; Daphne Patai and Noretta Koertge--Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women's Studies; and Christina Hoff Sommers--Who Stole Feminism? How Women have Betrayed Women)


**Should you encounter an item of Ms/information in one of your classes, in a textbook, or a women's center "fact" sheet, let us know. We will print it on our campus website, SheThinks.org, correct it with accurate information, and politely inform the source of the mistake.

We are a women's group dedicated to restoring reason, common sense and open discussion to the campus.

Need more proof of the misandry by those butch cuts and that feminism is communism?

Just wait until you see the next post...

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#228908 - 05/14/07 10:44 AM Hateful Quotes From Feminists [Re: HatesFeminazis]
HatesFeminazis Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 47
These quotes are from the LEADERS of the feminist movement and don't get bogged down with others stating that they "personally do not assimilate those thoughts." Why? How ofen have you heard women that call themselves feminists denounce the leaders of their movement that they affiliate themselves with? Rhetorical question-no response necessary...

Hateful Quotes From Feminists
These are actual quotes from a variety of mainstream feminists, stating their opinions and positions. The one common denominator is the obvious and blatant hatred of men. No reputable Father's Rights advocate could get away with making statements such as these- any man daring to say these kinds of things about women would instantly be branded a "gender-supremacist".




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In a patriarchal society all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent." Catherine MacKinnon in Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women's Studies, p. 129..

"I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire." From Robin Morgan, "Theory and Practice: Pornography and Rape" in "Going too Far," 1974. .

"When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression..." Sheila Jeffrys .

"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." Andrea Dworkin

"Sex is the cross on which women are crucified ... Sex can only be adequately defined as universal rape." Hodee Edwards, ‘Rape defines Sex’

"Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat." Hillary Clinton, First Ladies' Conference on Domestic Violence in San Salvador, El Salvador on Nov. 17, 1998

"MAN: ... an obsolete life form... an ordinary creature who needs to be watched ... a contradictory baby-man ..."
"TESTOSTERONE POISONING: ... 'Until now it has been though that the level of testosterone in men is normal simply because they have it. But if you consider how abnormal their behavior is, then you are led to the hypothesis that almost all men are suffering from 'testosterone poisoning.'" from A Feminist Dictionary", ed. Kramarae and Treichler, Pandora Press, 1985

"Patriarchy requires violence or the subliminal threat of violence in order to maintain itself... The most dangerous situation for a woman is not an unknown man in the street, or even the enemy in wartime, but a husband or lover in the isolation of their home." Gloria Steinem in Revolution from Within: A Book of Self-Esteem, pp. 259-61..

"Women take their roles of caretakers very seriously and when they hear of someone who's taken advantage of a child, they react more strongly than men do." - Kathleen C. Faller, professor of social work at the University of Michigan

"I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which a man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it." - Former Congresswoman Barbara Jordan

Melbourne City Councilwoman Pat Poole announced her opposition to renaming a street for Martin Luther King: "I wonder if he really accomplished things, or if he just stirred people up and caused a lot of riots."

"Our culture is depicting sex as rape so that men and women will become interested in it." Naomi Wolf, The Beauty Myth, p. 138..

"Under patriarchy, no woman is safe to live her life, or to love, or to mother children. Under patriarchy, every woman is a victim, past, present, and future. Under patriarchy, every woman's daughter is a victim, past, present, and future. Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman," Andrea Dworkin, Liberty, p.58..

"Compare victims' reports of rape with women's reports of sex. They look a lot alike....[T]he major distinction between intercourse (normal) and rape (abnormal) is that the normal happens so often that one cannot get anyone to see anything wrong with it." Catherine MacKinnon, quoted in Christina Hoff Sommers, "Hard-Line Feminists Guilty of Ms.-Representation," Wall Street Journal, November 7, 1991.

"The fact is that the process of killing - both rape and battery are steps in that process- is the prime sexual act for men in reality and/or in imagination.". Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 22..

"Man's discovery that his genitalia could serve as a weapon to generate fear must rank as one of the most important discoveries of prehistoric times, along with the use of fire, and the first crude stone axe." Susan Brownmiller, Against Our Will: Men, Women, and Rape, p. 5..

"The newest variations on this distressingly ancient theme center on hormones and DNA: men are biologically aggressive; their fetal brains were awash in androgen; their DNA, in order to perpetuate itself, hurls them into murder and rape." Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 114..

When asked: "You [Greer] were once quoted as saying your idea of the ideal man is a woman with a dick. Are you still that way inclined?"
Dr Greer (denying that she said it): "I have a great deal of difficulty with the idea of the ideal man. As far as I'm concerned, men are the product of a damanged gene. They pretend to be normal but what they're doing sitting there with benign smiles on their faces is they're manufacturing sperm. They do it all the time. They never stop. I mean, we women are more reasonable. We pop one follicle every 28 days, whereas they are producing 400 million sperm for each ejaculation, most of which don't take place anywhere near an ovum. I don't know that the ecosphere can tolerate it." Germaine Greer, at a Hilton Hotel literary lunch, promoting her book #34; The Change-- Women, Aging and the Menopause#34; . From a newsreport dated 14/11/91

"One can know everything and still be unable to accept the fact that sex and murder are fused in the male consciousness, so that the one without the imminent possibly of the other is unthinkable and impossible." Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 21..

"Cosmetic surgery and the ideology of self-improvement may have made women's hope for legal recourse to justice obsolete." Naomi Wolf, The Beauty Myth, p. 55..

"Sex as desired by the class that dominates women is held by that class to be elemental, urgent, necessary, even if or even though it appears to require the repudiation of any claim women might have to full human standing. In the subordination of women, inequality itself is sexualized, made into the experience of sexual pleasure, essential to sexual desire." Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 265..

"AIDS education will not get very far until young men are taught how not to rape young women and how to eroticize trust and consent; and until young women are supported in the way they need to be redefining their desires." Naomi Wolf, The Beauty Myth, p. 168..

"In everything men make, they hollow out a central place for death, let its rancid smell contaminate every dimension of whatever still survives. Men especially love murder. In art they celebrate it, and in life they commit it. They embrace murder as if life without it would be devoid of passion, meaning, and action, as if murder were solace, still their sobs as they mourn the empitness and alienation of their lives." Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 214..

"One of the reasons that women are kept in a state of economic degradation- because that's what it is for most women- is because that is the best way to keep women sexually available." Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 145..

"Romance is rape embellished with meaningful looks." Andrea Dworkin in the Philadelphia Inquirer, May 21, 1995..

"Ninety-five percent of women's experiences are about being a victim. Or about being an underdog, or having to survive...women didn't go to Vietnam and blow up things up. They are not Rambo." Jodie Foster in The New York Times Magazine, January 6, 1991, p. 19..

"All men are rapists and that's all they are." Marilyn French in People, February 20, 1983..

"All men benefit from rape, because all men benefit from the fact that women are not free in this society; that women cower; that women are afraid; that women cannot assert the rights that we have, limited as those rights are, because of the ubiquitous presence of rape." Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 142..

"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometime gain from the experience." Catherine Comins, Vassar College Assistant Dean of Student Life in Time, June 3, 1991, p. 52..

"We have long known that rape has been a way of terrorizing us and keeping us in subjection. Now we also know that we have participated, although unwittingly, in the rape of our minds." Historian Gerda Lerner in Who Stole Feminism: How Women Have Betrayed Women, p. 55..

"Only with the occasional celebrity crime do we allow ourselves to think the nearly unthinkable: that the family may not be the ideal and perfect living arrangement after all - that it can be a nest of pathology and a cradle of gruesome violence,... Even in the ostensibly "functional," nonviolent family, where no one is killed or maimed, feelings are routinely bruised and often twisted out of shape. There is the slap or the put-down that violates a child's shaky sense of self, the cold, distracted stare that drives a spouse to tears, the little digs and rivalries... Barbara Ehrenreich in Time Magazine

"The nuclear family is a hotbed of violence and depravity." Gordon Fitch

"How will the family unit be destroyed? ...[T]he demand alone will throw the whole ideology of the family into question, so that women can begin establishing a community of work with each other and we can fight collectively. Women will feel freer to leave their husbands and become economically independent, either through a job or welfare." Roxanne Dunbar in Female Liberation

"Feminists have long criticized marriage as a place of oppression, danger, and drudgery for women. Barbara Findlen, "Is Marriage the Answer? Ms Magazine, May - June, 1995

"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage. Robin Morgan, from Sisterhood Is Powerful (ed), 1970, p. 537

"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice. Rape, originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture. Marriage meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use of but possession of, or ownership. Only when manhood is dead--and it will perish when ravaged femininity no longer sustains it" Andrea Dworkin

"The cultural institutions which embody and enforce those interlocked aberrations--for instance, law, art, religion, nation-states, the family, tribe, or commune based on father-right--these institutions are real and they must be destroyed." Andrea Dworkin

"I was struck by what a beneficial alternative to the nuclear family this arrangement [communal housing and child raising] was for these women and children." Lenore Walker, after visiting one of the early shelters for battered women, as cited in The Battered Woman, p.195

"The nuclear family must be destroyed, and people must find better ways of living together.... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process.... No woman should have to deny herself any opportunities because of her special responsibilities to her children... Families will be finally destroyed only when a revolutionary social and economic organization permits people's needs for love and security to be met in ways that do not impose divisions of labor, or any external roles, at all." Linda Gordon, "Functions of the Family," WOMEN: A Journal of Liberation, Fall, 1969

"God is going to change. We women... will change the world so much that He won't fit anymore." Naomi Goldenberg, Changing of the Gods: Feminism and the End of Traditional Religions (Quoted at beginning of From Father God to Mother Earth)

"We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men..." Elizabeth Stanton, One Woman, One Vote, Wheeler, p. 58

"Who cares how men feel or what they do or whether they suffer? They have had over 2000 years to dominate and made a complete hash of it. Now it is our turn. My only comment to men is, if you don't like it, bad luck - and if you get in my way I'll run you down." Signed: Liberated Women, Boronia. (Herald-Sun, Melbourne, Australia - 9 February 1996)
_________________________
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win-so read me.

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#228909 - 05/14/07 12:54 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: realitybias]
BeckaLeigh Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6879
Loc: Texas
She does sound like she is bipolar. I am as well, and take my meds regularly. I have had no problems. You DONT want a general practice dr diagnosing her. Call around and see if there is a Mental Health Mental Retardation Center close to you. She may seem normal, but take it from those of us who know, she still has those thoughts in her head. it is just when she "appears" normal, she is strong enough to overcome them, which is going to happen less and less the older she gets. There are alot of programs for this kind of situation, it just depends on your state and you have to search for them.
_________________________
I tried being normal once. Worst five minutes of my life.

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#228910 - 05/14/07 03:12 PM Re: Worse comes to worse... [Re: 1004SRS]
changes Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 1820
Quote:
Renee and Rebecca5 are right. Take her to an ER if she's a danger to herself or others. She can get the help she needs


I tried that once with a family member who had threatened others with killing herself....when she did it to me I took her straight tot he ER. As soon as she walked in she went Stone Cold SANE on me. She had no idea WHY I was FORCING her to come to the ER. She was just fine. She had no urge to harm herself. She thinks I'm over reacting. Made me look like a total idiot to the ER folks. I decided then I was done with all her crap. I took her to her house and didn't speak with her again for 2-3 years. She was on her own after that incident.
_________________________
If I agreed with you then we'd both be wrong.

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#228911 - 05/14/07 04:14 PM Re: Worse comes to worse... [Re: changes]
txks1151 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 210
I can wholly understand you wanting to hang on to do the right thing.. I tried for years. If my ex had done what Becka did (got treatment and stuck with it) we probably would still be together..

However, the key with these things is that she has to want to get better. It seems you have tried leading the horse to water.

I'm sorry it has worked out this way for you, but, if she does not want to be better, she wont.. I was told by a psychiatrist that some of the people with bipolar or worse, believe they are OK, the world is messed up, and they don't want to get any help. Because they think EVERYONE ELSE needs it, not them..

Changes also brings up a common thing.. People with fairly serious mental issues can get their junk together and play sane for a time when they have to.. But they can't keep it up forever, in my opinion (not a doctor, just personal experience with my ex and a friend who was severly bipolar and is now in a facility after a botched suicide attempt left her with brain damage)

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#228912 - 05/14/07 05:17 PM Re: Worse comes to worse... [Re: txks1151]
aaz Offline
recently joined

Registered: 03/25/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Georgia
I echo most of the adivse here. I lived in hell for 4 yrs, walking on eggshells and being controlled, manipulated and abused by a spouse with serious issues who would not admit he had a problem or seriously seek help. We have a son together and that made it much more difficult. You are responsible for yourself and she is responsible for herself. You cannot save or change her. In situations like this, you MUST stop worrying about taking care of her and take care of yourself. And, by all means, do not bring an innocent child into the chaos.

Below is a lengthy (but wonderful) story, a metaphor if you will. I kept several copies laying around to remind me of where responsibility lies...

The Bridge

There was a man who had given much thought to what he wanted from life. He had experienced many moods and trials. He had experimented with different ways of living, and he had had his share of both success and failure. At last, he had begun to see clearly where he wanted to go.

Diligently, he searched for the right opportunity. Sometimes he came close, only to be pushed away. Often he applied all of his strength and imagination, only to find the path hopelessly blocked. And then at last it came! But the opportunity would not wait. It would be made available only for a short time. If it were seen that he was not committed, the opportunity would not come again.

Eager to arrive, he started on his journey. With each step, he wanted to move faster; with each thought about his goal, his heart beat quicker; with each vision of what lay ahead, he found renewed vigor. Strength that had left since his early youth returned, and desires, all kinds of desires, reawakened from their long-dormant positions.

Hurrying along, he came upon a bridge that crossed through the middle of a town. It had been built high above a river in order to protect it from the floods of spring.

He started across. Then he noticed someone coming from the opposite direction. As they moved closer, it seemed as though the other was coming to greet him. He could clearly see, however, that he did not know this other, who was dressed similarly except for something tied around his waist.

When they were within hailing distance, he could see that what the other had about his waist was a rope. It was wrapped around him many times and probably, if extended, would reach a length of 30 feet.

The other began to uncurl the rope, and, just as they were coming close, the stranger said, "Pardon me, would you be so kind as to hold the end a moment?"

Surprised by this politely phrased but curious request, he agreed without a thought, reached out, and took it.

"Thank you," said the other, who then added, "two hands now, and remember, hold tight." Whereupon, the other jumped off the bridge.

Quickly, the free-falling body hurtled the distance of the rope's length, and from the bridge, the man abruptly felt the pull. Instinctively, he held tight and was almost dragged over the side. He managed to brace himself against the edge, however, and after having caught his breath looked down at the other dangling, close to oblivion.

"What are you trying to do?" he yelled.

"Just hold tight," said the other "This is ridiculous," the man thought and began trying to haul the other in. He could not get the leverage, however. It was as though the weight of the other person and the length of the rope had been carefully calculated in advance so that together they created a counterweight just beyond his strength to bring the other back to safety.

"Why did you do this?" the man called out.

"Remember," said the other, "if you let go, I will be lost."

"But I cannot pull you up," the man cried.

"I am your responsibility," said the other.

"Well, I did not ask for it," the man said.

"If you let go, I am lost," repeated the other.

He began to look around for help. But there was no one. How long would he have to wait? Why did this happen to befall him now, just as he was on the verge of true success? He examined the side, searching for a place to tie the rope. Some protrusion, perhaps, or maybe a hole in the boards. But the railing was unusually uniform in shape; there were no spaces between the boards. There was no way to get rid of this newfound burden, even temporarily.

What do you want?" he asked the other hanging below.

"Just your help," the other answered.

"How can I help? I cannot pull you in, and there is no place to tie the rope so that I can go and find someone to help me help you."

"I know that. Just hang on; that will be enough. Tie the rope around your waist; it will be easier."

Fearing that his arms could not hold out much longer, he tied the rope around his waist. "Why did you do this?" he asked again. "Don't you see what you have done? What possible purpose could you have in mind?"

"Just remember," said the other, "my life is in your hands."

What should he do? "If I let go, all my life I will know that I let this other die. If I stay, I risk losing my momentum toward my own long-sought-after salvation. Either way, this will haunt me forever." With ironic humor he thought to die himself, instantly, to jump off the bridge while he was still holding on. "That would teach this fool." But he wanted to live and live fully. "What a choice I have to make; How shall I ever decide?"

As time went by, still no one came. The critical moment of decision was drawing near. To show his commitment to his own goals, he would have to continue on his journey now. It was already almost too late to arrive in time. But what a terrible choice to have to make!

A new thought occurred to him. While he could not pull this other up solely by his own efforts, if the other would shorten the rope from his end by curling it around his waist again and again, together, they could do it! Actually, the other could do it by himself, so long as he, standing on the bridge, kept it still and steady.

"Now listen," he shouted down. "I think I know how to save you." And he explained his plan. But the other wasn't interested. "You mean you won't help? But I told you I cannot pull you up myself, and I don't think I can hang on much longer either."

"You must try," the other shouted back in tears. "If you fail, I die!"

The point of decision had arrived. What should he do? "My life or this other's?" And then a new idea. A revelation. So new, in fact, it seemed heretical, so alien was it to his traditional way of thinking.

"I want you to listen carefully," he said, "because I mean what I am about to say. I will not accept the position of choice for your life, only for my own; the position of choice for your own life I hereby give back to you."

"What do you mean?" the other asked, afraid.

"I mean, simply, it's up to you. You decide which way this ends. I will become the counterweight. You do the pulling and bring yourself up. I will even tug a little from here." He began unwinding the rope from around his waist and braced himself anew against the side.

"You cannot mean what you say!" the other shrieked. "You would not be so selfish. I am your responsibility. What could be so important that you would let someone die? Do not do this to me!"

He waited a moment. There was no change in the tension of the rope.

"I accept your choice," he said, at last, and freed his hands.

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#228913 - 05/14/07 09:42 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: almostheaven]
Debbie_L Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 2031
She sounds like she has Borderline Personality Disorder. I would advise you to get out (and be careful - they get very ugly and potentially violent when you end the relationship). I have an ex-boyfriend that I lived with for 4 years that had it - it was hell. He stalked me for months after I broke it off and keyed my car, etc. It was pretty scary, but I'm so glad to be rid of him.

Google the Borderline Personality Disorder and see if you don't agree with me. Her symptoms are CLASSIC of bpd.

PS - It is an extremely difficult disorder to treat. Most psychologists even try to avoid them as they are so demanding and draining, and treatment is not usually successful. It takes YEARS, and would mean she would have to want it (and they usually don't).

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#228914 - 05/14/07 09:50 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: Debbie_L]
Debbie_L Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 2031
My brother is severely bipolar. To be honest, she doesn't sound bipolar to me, she sounds like a borderline personality disorder - and this is unfortunately a really difficult thing to treat and not very successful. I would seriously get out while you are still young. Do NOT have kids with her under ANY circumstances.

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#228915 - 05/14/07 11:47 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: Debbie_L]
almostheaven Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
My daughter was diagnosed as bipolar for a couple of years and different meds were tried until another doc diagnosed her as borderline and prescribed an entirely different regime. He said its often misdiagnosed as bipolar. Hard to diagnose properly. She went through quite a few ER visits and stays in the hospital in order to get her initially incorrectly diagnosed as bipolar. Then more visits to get the correct diagnosis.
_________________________
Char Fox

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#228916 - 05/15/07 12:22 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: almostheaven]
aaz Offline
recently joined

Registered: 03/25/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Georgia
I posted "The Bridge" above, thinking the exact same thing... Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). I got it from a BPD support group. My stbx is undiagnosed but a couple of couselors have suggested they believe he fits the symptoms. I believe he does. The young lady in question here reminds me of stbx. Take other's advice and look it up. A great source is BPDCentral.com The forums have been a blessing for me. BPD411.org has some more good information.

But, even if she doesn't fit the diagnostic criteria, she's exhibiting some very serious, very destructive behavior and thought patterns that could leave you in shambles. A diagnosis isn't the most important thing and I'm not suggesting you try to diagnose her. We're not experts in that area and even the experts are often gun shy when it comes to BPD. But recognizing the behavior and chaos and deciding what to do about it is what's important. And this information could give you some perspective as to the possibilities.

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#228917 - 05/15/07 04:46 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: aaz]
Debbie_L Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 2031
Almost Heaven,

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's troubles. How is she doing now?

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#228918 - 05/15/07 04:49 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: Debbie_L]
almostheaven Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 10468
Loc: West Virginia
As long as she takes her meds, she does fine. But there are times when she thinks she's ok and stops taking them and starts having episodes. The episodes started when she was 15, but she wasn't properly diagosed until she was 17.
_________________________
Char Fox

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#228919 - 05/15/07 07:22 PM Re: I don't even know what to do.. Help, I'm young [Re: almostheaven]
Debbie_L Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 2031
It's hard, I know. It seems to be pretty common too - no matter what the condition (my brother is bipolar and they do that too), they usually stop taking the meds at times. My ex (who had bpd) refused them altogether (but he would take every illegal drug or alcohol he could get, sigh).

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