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#537259 - 07/29/09 01:35 PM Re: Actually, it is... [Re: RJ1]
JennyLynn Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 31656
It has nothing to do with an Ex getting under your skin, it has to do w/ him taking responsibility. If you don't care if he does - and you're able to get along fine without it, that's awesome. There are a lot of women (and men who are owed CS) who can't say that. Their children have to go without, b/c the OP doesn't care enough to support them.

If it's a CP's fault that an NCP is a lazy, irresponsible parent - then I suppose it's the NCP's fault when a CP denies visitation? If we're going to compare the two - we have to compare it all the way.

If it's not the courts fault, if it's not the NCP's fault - it's the CP's fault. If the NCP doesn't take responsibility - it's the CP's fault when the NCP has to face the consequences. Therefor the reverse would also be true? I can't be convinced of any truth in that.

I suppose it's my fault if I see someone committing a crime, and that person ends up in jail? I suppose it's one of my best friends fault that she called the cops on her husband for beating the crap out of her, the state pressed charges and he wound up in jail?

We are all responsible for our own choices. And I strongly feel CP's SHOULD be held to the same standard.

It's no more the NCP's fault when CP isn't given consequences for withholding visitation than it is the CP's fault for NCP not financially supporting their child. There are laws in place for a reason. There are courts involved for a reason, and that's to enforce the law. I find no shame in that. NCP's know the consequences if they choose to disobey the law.


Edited by JennyLynn (07/29/09 01:45 PM)

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#537260 - 07/29/09 01:46 PM Re: Actually, it is... [Re: RJ1]
Cassie23 Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 14784
Yes if you have a choice in the matter...I can see choosing against jail time, I guess I just don't understand why the NCP wouldn't choose that as well?

I am sure there are cases though where the NCP has been thrown in jail for non payment and the state decided to do that on their own regard. Surely those cases are probably mostly because the CP is on some type of state aid.

I guess, in my thought process, if I was a CP receiving or not receiving CS- I wouldn't feel as though I was the one who put the NCP in jail for non payment. There are laws and if they aren't followed there are consequences. Our children, as a whole, learn that at a very young age. I want my child to understand that as they are growing up, so when they become an adult they realize making good choices often leads to rewards, while making bad choices leads to punishment.

Of course I do understand the compassion you have for your son's father. I just don't see why he would break a law knowing it could lead to jail time and his own absence from his son's life?


Edited by Cassie23 (07/29/09 01:49 PM)

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#537261 - 07/29/09 01:48 PM Re: Actually, it is... [Re: Cassie23]
JennyLynn Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 31656
&lt;&lt;There are cases though where the NCP has been thrown in jail for non payment and the state decided to do that on their own regard. Surely those cases are probably mostly because the CP is on some type of state aid.&gt;&gt;

Here, CSE completely takes over the case, even if you aren't on state aid. While I'm very involved in our case - I don't have to be. Yet if I weren't, he would have been in jail quite a while ago. That's the approach BM has taken - he owes her about $2K, maybe less now after his tax return - she has no idea what's goign on in the case. CSE filed contempt and was going to take his license, she had nothing to do with it. She didn't even know until after the fact.

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#537262 - 07/29/09 03:05 PM Re: Actually, it is... [Re: RJ1]
Sherron Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 20729
"And I don't need CS...that certainly helps. I feel no bitterness towards him. I have no axe to grind. We are not suffering. "

That's great, rj. I don't feel bitter towards him either on most days. I used to not depend on the cs. I am getting to the point where I NEED it, unfortunately. So, yes - I do occasionally get a little pi$$y when unemployed sm goes tanning, has manicured nails and some nice highlights, while I'm trying to figure out how much longer I can go without buying new clothes for me for work, because all my money goes to bills and the kids. I do get pi$$y when I hear that they've gone to yet another concert this month, while I'm skipping lunch because I don't get paid until Friday. I do get pi$$y when he doesn't file taxes because his entire refund would go to cs arrears. I don't thrive on bitterness; most days, I don't give it a second thought. But yes, I will get pi$$y when I read how it's all MY fault if he goes to jail because HE is making the choice that he'd rather spend his money on fun stuff for himself and sm, instead of paying cs.

As far as givin him a break on cs? I have before, I am now. The kids' insurance isn't even calculated into cs. I've previously asked to modify cs because I knew he couldn't afford the amount ordered. I didn't insist on calculating his OT into cs, even though I could have and it would have been granted. I have giving him cs back. I have provided him with groceries when he took the kids for the weekend (once upon a time). I have never held him to the co on parenting time, either - if he was willing to take the kids, I agreed, even if it was "officially" my time - including holidays.

I HAVE TRIED TO WORK WITH HIM ON EVERYTHING. I AM DONE. If he wants to sit his a$$ in jail for non-payment, I will respect his choice.

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#537263 - 07/29/09 03:25 PM Re: Actually, it is... [Re: Sherron]
JennyLynn Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 31656
&lt;&lt;If he wants to sit his a$$ in jail for non-payment, I will respect his choice. &gt;&gt;

Yup, and it will be HIS choice, you're not responsible for it, as I know you know :)

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#537264 - 07/29/09 06:10 PM Re: Actually, it is... [Re: JennyLynn]
Yes_Dad Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 7406
ONE PERSON CITE ONE CASE (COUNTY AND CASE NUMBER OR COUNTY/NAME) WHERE THE MOTHER WENT TO JAIL FOR VISITATION INTERFERENCE. THAT IS MY CHALLANGE TO YOU.

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#537265 - 07/29/09 06:12 PM Re: Actually, it is... [Re: Yes_Dad]
JennyLynn Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 31656
Yes Dad, we've talked about this - it still has absolutely NOTHING to do with NCP facing the consequences.

I agree CP's who deny visitation should also have to face the same consequences.

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#537266 - 07/29/09 06:16 PM Re: Actually, it is... [Re: Yes_Dad]
Tweeby Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 06/05/04
Posts: 7100
If I remeber correctly, in M5's situation, the BM was sent to jail for keeping the children from M5's husband and they ahd 50/50 custody at the time.

Ask M5 about it.

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#537267 - 07/29/09 06:31 PM Re: Actually, it is... [Re: JennyLynn]
Yes_Dad Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 7406
[quote]I'll PM you the county we're in. I can say that I've been IN court while a mother was threatened by our judge for denying visitation. [/quote]

Threatened? By a judge? Jeez-us H. I want to see a single incidence of a woman being jailed for visitation interference. Jenny, as I told you, Illinois is the ONLY state where visitation interference is actually a crimminal act. There has not been a single woman jailed for it, let alone charged, in the 4 years or so the law has been in effect. And Illinois has 10-12M people in it. Many more than Oklahoma. Yet no one has been jailed for this relatively new law. BTW- It is catagorized as a "petty offense". Other "petty offenses" as an example is spitting on the sidewalk and jaywalking. THAT is how serious they think it is.

Men are continually threatened by judges. Big deal.

As I said, I want to see a single case where the mother spent time in jail for visitation interference. (And not one where the mother is accusing the father of abuse or some non-sense like that). Just regular visitation experience.

Oh, and to be charged here, you have to have 3 previous offenses where the judge found you in contempt.

The law has a heavy bias towards women. Now someone needs to get hopping and show me an instance of it. It would be for my benefit, as I need to be able to cite cases as I still have little ones.

And GoodMom, you can go to hell. This woman spent 12 years fully engaged in attempts at alienation. She told them I never paid any support when in fact, I paid more in CS aloe than you have ever seen in your life. She lied to them, presenting falsehood after falsehood. And continually used them as weapons against me. Until they were of age (and she was over 20 when my daughter first read it) they were under the impression that it was I who screwed them all over in terms of money, etc. While she didn't dare engage in visitation interference, as it would upset the applecart and possibly result in her loss, she used and abused my children on a continual basis. My daughter is a young professional (who btw, is now paying the mortgage on the home equity loans her mother and step father took out to buy him toys) and well beyond the age of "child abuse". You have NO idea how it feels to give away well in excess of a million dollars while they whole time, the kids are thinking I was stiffing their mother. SHE wanted to read it because she didn't believe it. Do you by chance have an extra million dollars laying around you can just throw away?Didn't think so..so STFU

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#537268 - 07/29/09 06:32 PM Re: Actually, it is... [Re: Yes_Dad]
Yes_Dad Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 7406
Seriously, I need to be able to cite cases.

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